Eyepiece advice needed.

[silentrunning]

I know some of you guys are eyepiece aficionados and I would like some advice.

 

You may have seen my post about a huge pair of binoculars - if that's the right term - that I have acquired. These came with a pair of Meade 3000 40mm plossls that I most admit seem to perform fantastically. I have no other eyepieces but have purchased a pair of 21mm Baader Hyperions that I was going to use with fine tuning rings to give me a range of magnifications. These have arrived and now I have some reservations because of the size they will be when the extension rings have been added, I have yet to purchase the rings. I am thinking of returning these and getting pairs of Meade 4000 plossls instead, 20mm, 9.7mm and 6.4mm. I can get these six eyepieces for the price of the Hyperions and the rings. All told the magnifications on the binos will be 37, 74, 154 and 234.

 

I wondered what your thoughts are on this are and what you think of the 4000 series.

 

Many thanks

 

John

[Tweedledee]

For a budget price those Meades should perform fine, and provide an excellent range of magnifications, though I would say you are missing out on the very useful 90x to 120x region.

 

If it were me, I'd want to open up the scope with some wider apparent field eyepieces, but that is going to cost more.

 

I bought a Hyperion a few years ago, I think it was a 17mm, but didn't like the mushy outer 20% which made the wider field unusable. That was in a 10" F4 which is so short it would show up abberations in wide angle eyepieces more. Some people like the Hyperion.

 

I presume you are limited to 1.25" eyepieces as the interocular distance would probably be too wide with 2" eyepieces. You can get some good priced secondhand wider angle eyepieces off ABS, but are less likely to find them in pairs.

 

Try the Hyperions, you might enjoy the change from 50 degrees to 68 degree apparent field. I suspect your 12" bino is F5 or a bit more, so you should see a little less of the edge problems and may not even be bothered too much by them.

 

I think you will see some even grander vistas in that scope if you have wider angle eyepieces that will take in a larger chunk of sky for the same magnification. You may find that the fine tuning rings are fiddly in the dark, can easily be lost, and of course, you will need twice as many.

 

The other way to look at it, is to use what you have and try other peoples eyepieces (even with one eye you'll know if you like the view) and build your collection over time. Eyepieces usually retain most of their value, so if you sell on and upgrade, you won't lose much.

 

Eyepieces are peculiar things, and what suits one person may not suit you, even if you pay a colossal price.

[silentrunning]

Thanks Pete

 

I managed to try the Hyperions out last night and the wider aFOV was quite luxurious. M13 looked stunning, almost completely resolved and filling up half the FOV. They seem a little bit more sensitive of eye to EP distance than the 3000 40mm but maybe that is to be expected. My inter pupillary distance is quite large and possibly slightly larger than the binos allow, not a problem with the 3000s but a little bit noticeable with the Hyperions. Wouldn't like to comment on the out field as I had not spent anytime collimating the scopes but it looked OK'sh. I guess my major concern is the length they become with the tuning rings on as they are quite heavy already and also the range of magnification will only be 74 - 110 with the various rings added so not much of a range really. The aFOV was fantastic though.

 

Maybe I should look at just 2 pairs of wide aFOV eyepieces, say 20mm and 10mm to give 74 and 148x. With the 40mm 3000s that might be a nice set to start with. Now where to find wide aFOV ones....

 

[+Graham]

Of course you could always stick two cameras in and do stereoscopic imaging  

[silentrunning]

2 hours ago, Graham said:

Of course you could always stick two cameras in and do stereoscopic imaging  

 

It did cross my tiny mind!! I wonder if my EQ8 could take the weight?

[Tweedledee]

6 hours ago, silentrunning said:

Thanks Pete

 

I managed to try the Hyperions out last night and the wider aFOV was quite luxurious. M13 looked stunning, almost completely resolved and filling up half the FOV. They seem a little bit more sensitive of eye to EP distance than the 3000 40mm but maybe that is to be expected. My inter pupillary distance is quite large and possibly slightly larger than the binos allow, not a problem with the 3000s but a little bit noticeable with the Hyperions. Wouldn't like to comment on the out field as I had not spent anytime collimating the scopes but it looked OK'sh. I guess my major concern is the length they become with the tuning rings on as they are quite heavy already and also the range of magnification will only be 74 - 110 with the various rings added so not much of a range really. The aFOV was fantastic though.

 

Maybe I should look at just 2 pairs of wide aFOV eyepieces, say 20mm and 10mm to give 74 and 148x. With the 40mm 3000s that might be a nice set to start with. Now where to find wide aFOV ones....

 

Glad you enjoyed the aFOV in the Hyperions, as you say it does feel like a more luxurious viewing experience.

 

You could always add some counterweights behind the mirrors if the Hyperions upset the balance. I may be wrong, but I think the Baader fine tuning rings are only available in 2" not 1.25", check you can use 2" in your eyepiece holders.

 

A 21mm 68 degree Hyperion will give a real field of 0.96 degrees, not much less than your 40mm 44 degree Plossl at about 1.1 degrees. You'll probably prefer the luxury of the 68 degree view at 71x than the 44 degree at 37x. The 40mm will give a massive exit pupil of 8mm in your F5 scope. Your dark adapted eye pupil will probably only open to about 6mm wasting 44% of the light. Your twin 12" mirrors will have the light grasp of a pair of 9" mirrors.

 

A pair of 25mm Hyperions will give the widest true field you are going to get when limited to 1.25" eps. They would provide a 1.13 degree field, same as the 40mm Plossl, but with a much more usable 5mm exit pupil and higher power.

 

Have a look at Explore Scientific 68 and 82 degree eyepieces, they are cracking eyepieces for the price and are usually a bit lighter than the Hyperions.

 

 

[tuckstar]

Just add, the fine tuning rings screw in behind the nose piece so they still remain 1.25", although they will sit in a 2" focusor.

I may be wrong, but I don't think you can use the rings on the 24mm. It's slightly different from the other focal lengths.

I have hyperions, are they are great eyepieces, but slowly upgrading to Explore scientific 100°. I have two 8mm hyperions at the moment and use the tuning rings to make one either a 5,6 or 4.3mm depending on which combination you use. It can be a bit cumbersome with both rings.

 

This might be useful to you.

 

Edited June 23, 2016 by tuckstar

[tuckstar]

Off a shops Web site.

"The Baader 24mm Hyperion Eyepiece will notaccept the Fine Tuning Rings due to a difference in optical design."

[Tweedledee]

Cheers Andy. 

 

I have a set of Baader fine tuning rings to correctly space a Baader coma corrector from 2" eyepieces, have never used them to change the focal length of an eyepiece.

 

I see, so the 2" fine tuning rings change the spacing of the lenses but leave the 1.25" barrel in place available for use. 

[silentrunning]

Thanks everyone, clearly a lot to think about here. 

 

I got the 21mm Hyperions knowing that they are compatible with the fine tuning rings and read the chart that's kindly reproduced above by Andy. I calculated the resulting range of magnifications (x74-x110) that will result by combining the rings. I don't have the rings yet but the view straight through the 21mm was really quite amazing, the sky contrast being predictably better for the bright twilit sky than the 40mm Meades. The 21mm seemed to go deeper as well for the same conditions, this I guess may be a direct result of Pete's point about light being lost with an exit pupil larger than the eyes'. On the plus side the Meades seem to have a more comfortable and wider range of eye relief than the Hyperions.

 

I have no experience with eyepieces but both pairs have impressed me as they stand. I just feel that to exploit this instrument I should at least have some higher powered EPs in the bag and with that in mind should I return the Hyperions and invest in a different strategy. Having said that there appear to be few wide angle eyepieces as cheap as the Hyperions so maybe they will form a valuable part of a collection anyway?

 

I'll check out the explore EPs.

 

John

 

[silentrunning]

Out of interest I read somewhere that it's pointless having more than about 68 degrees of aFOV as the eye has to move around to view the field. That doesn't seem to be an issue for me - it mov es around nyway to focus on different things - but is it in practice and if so why are EPs in the 100 degree range and above so raved about? What's your experience of these super wide angle EPs?

[tuckstar]

It a case of horses for courses. I love the total imersive experience of my ES 20MM 100°. It's like looking through a porthole to the stars. But others find they have to look around and this can strain there eyes. I did a first light test comparing my es to my hyperion 21mm somewhere on here.

[tuckstar]

 

[silentrunning]

15 minutes ago, tuckstar said:

It a case of horses for courses. I love the total imersive experience of my ES 20MM 100°. It's like looking through a porthole to the stars. But others find they have to look around and this can strain there eyes. I did a first light test comparing my es to my hyperion 21mm somewhere on here.

 

Cheers Andy, a very interesting comparison - sadly the ES100s are out of my price range, so I guess I'm limited to 68s.

[Tweedledee]

As per the comments by Andy above, some get on with wide angles, some don't. I can't get enough of them and have broken the bank with some ridiculously expensive 100 and 120 degree eyepieces. With some of my eyepieces, the telescope just gets out of the way and leaves you out there floating between the galaxies having a spacewalk experience. I currently have far more money invested in eyepieces than scopes. But I'm not the only nutter on this forum. 

 

[Brantuk]

I too like the imersive experience of 100^o+ eyepieces - you can look into all four corners of an Ethos and still see perfect stars in a field that surrounds you. How they figure the glass to do that is beyond me but it's impressive. I also like the Meade 4000's which give pinpoint star fields - I reckon two of similar size would give a great stereoscopic effect in bv's despite being a spot narrower.

[silentrunning]

Gadzookers!!! That's an astonishing collection, how many eye's have you got!  If you were to keep just 3 of them what would they be???

 

I just want to get this option oujt of the way... For the price of the 2 Hyperions and two sets of fine tuning rings I could get two full collections of Meade 4000 eyepieces (with filters etc which I assume are useless?). The 3000 40mm have imnpressed me but I guess the I would loose the wide field appeal with the shorter fl, higher mag ones in the set? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/391485233667?lpid=122&chn=ps&googleloc=1006692&poi=&campaignid=207297426&device=c&adgroupid=13585920426&rlsatarget=aud-133395220626%3Apla-131843273346&adtype=pla&crdt=0

 

Would your advice be to avoid these kits?

 

 

[Brantuk]

Hmmm.... good question - deffo the two Ethos's - probably the 31 Nagler and I'd need a 4th - probably the 24 Panoptic just to fill the range. I've only got two eyes - and those are only the cream of the eyepieces - the trouble is I've too many scopes and I'm a hopeless eyepiece hoarder lol.

 

Thing about kits is that there's always gonna be one or two bits you love and use all the time - and one or two other bits that sit gathering dust. I am particularly choosy which pieces I get and for which scope - plus it's always a personal choice - what suits one persons eyes doesn't suit another. Best advice I always give is try before you buy - most folks will let you try a piece from their collection in your own scope so you are in a better position to decide what suits you best.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Brantuk

[Tweedledee]

33 minutes ago, silentrunning said:

Gadzookers!!! That's an astonishing collection, how many eye's have you got!  If you were to keep just 3 of them what would they be???

 

I just want to get this option oujt of the way... For the price of the 2 Hyperions and two sets of fine tuning rings I could get two full collections of Meade 4000 eyepieces (with filters etc which I assume are useless?). The 3000 40mm have imnpressed me but I guess the I would loose the wide field appeal with the shorter fl, higher mag ones in the set? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/391485233667?lpid=122&chn=ps&googleloc=1006692&poi=&campaignid=207297426&device=c&adgroupid=13585920426&rlsatarget=aud-133395220626%3Apla-131843273346&adtype=pla&crdt=0

 

Would your advice be to avoid these kits?

 

 

From top left, the first, third and fourth,. That is 17mm 100 degree TV Ethos, 25mm 100 degree and 9mm 120 degree Explore Scientific. But I'd miss some of the others.

 

I say don't be too hasty. You have a very special, exotic binocular scope which deserves better than those Meades. Those Meades are actually OK, but there is nothing special about them. I think you will get a much more enjoyable view if you had better quality wider angle eyepieces. Having said that, you could go for two Meade sets, find out their limitations and then upgrade. HTH.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Tweedledee

[Brantuk]

Ahhh... you meant Pete's collection d'ohhh lol

[Tweedledee]

13 minutes ago, Brantuk said:

Hmmm.... good question - deffo the two Ethos's - probably the 31 Nagler and I'd need a 4th - probably the 24 Panoptic just to fill the range. I've only got two eyes - and those are only the cream of the eyepieces - the trouble is I've too many scopes and I'm a hopeless eyepiece hoarder lol.

 

Superb eyepieces Kim, I wouldn't mind adding those to my collection.

[Daz Type-R]

Here are mine....

 

 

I know, I know, we are not helping...   

 

With regards to ep kits, personally I would not bother for the reasons stated above.  Also, I wouldn't bother with tuning rings, more faffing about IMO in the dark, never used them myself but much prefer fixed length ep's nowadays.

 

Also like mentioned above, ep's are a very personal thing, Kim, Pete and myself can bang on about 100 degree FOV ep's all night, you might look through one and hate it.

 

It certainly is a tough call.

[Tweedledee]

And yours Daz.  

[silentrunning]

Thanks again, I've definitely decided against the meads simply because the wide angle of the Hyperions has captured my attention. I'ld love some mega wide angles that give that "port hole" effect but they are really out of my budget. So I'm figuring on hanging onto the 21mm Hyperions and may be buying the rings to give a range of mid field magnifications and either buying 8mm Hyperions that will also shorten with the rings or buying another pair of short focal length wide angle eyepieces!

 

 

[silentrunning]

Well based on the performance of the 21mm Hyperions I decided to buy a pair of 8mm Hyperions and two sets of fine tuning rings. All told my EP collection will be give FLs of 40 (Meades), 21, 17.6, 15.5, 14, 8, 6, 5 and 4.3 giving me magnifications of 37, 71, 85, 97, 107, 187, 250, 300 and 349 all from just 2 pairs of EPs. If the 8mms perform as well as the 21mms I'll be more than happy. Thanks to everyone for advice.