Paypal security - advice welcome

[Tweedledee]

I'm contemplating a fairly substantial astro purchase via paypal from an individual in South Korea who will include shipping and paypal fees within his price. This is not an ebay transaction.

 

Nothing so far is ringing any alarm bells, but I was hoping that EMS'ers might have some tips or things to look out for that may alert me to a possible scam. Also I am reading through Paypals small print to see if I am totally covered for any type of scam or if the goods don't turn up, but hoping someone will have already been down this route and can give me the relevant info in a nutshell.

 

Thanks in advance.

[BAZ]

I have had problems with an Ebay vendor, I didn't receive the goods. I contacted Paypal and told them that the goods hadn't been received. As the vendor hadn't sent them via a tracked or signed for delivery, I was refunded in full. If the vendor claims he posted them, even if he has proof he posted them, delivery of the goods is his responsibility until you have them and hopefully signed for them. HTH.

 

[Doc]

You should be covered by Paypal if the goods do not arrive. Where are you buying from if it isn't e-bay, is it a proper astro shop?

[Sheila]

I booked flights with monarch airlines just before they went bust. Was refunded in full after about 5 days. All the info I can gove

you. 

[Tweedledee]

Thanks very much Martyn, Mick and Sheila. 

 

Mick, this is a Cloudy Nights classified ad, and as far as I can tell it is an individual not an astro shop.

 

Anyone else want to chip in with any comments/advice.

 

I'm just a bit wary because it is more money than I would care to lose, and I don't gamble. 

[Doc]

Could this item be bought elsewhere (safer country) Pete or is it one of these hard to find objects?

 

If I was you I would be wary. Listen to your gut Pete, first instincts are normally correct.

[Perkil8r]

The only thing I would say, and please don't take this as doom and gloom, I have seen in the past where bogus sales are not refunded because the "vendor" sends something of similar weight via a tracked service. You sign for it and they are home dry. Paypal will only insist you return the "item" and prove they have had it back etc....

 

I'm sure it will be fine. Ask all the right questions to ensure you are happy they have the item, such as asking technical details they will only know if they have one etc. I have had very few issues in many thousands of transactions. Paypal is actually very safe indeed. For added piece of mind you can pay with paypal off a credit card. You would then be covered by both paypal and the credit card company in the unlikely event of any issues.

[Tweedledee]

37 minutes ago, Doc said:

Could this item be bought elsewhere (safer country) Pete or is it one of these hard to find objects?

 

If I was you I would be wary. Listen to your gut Pete, first instincts are normally correct.

Hard to find at that price.

 

Cheers Mick.

 

PM'd you. 

30 minutes ago, Perkil8r said:

The only thing I would say, and please don't take this as doom and gloom, I have seen in the past where bogus sales are not refunded because the "vendor" sends something of similar weight via a tracked service. You sign for it and they are home dry. Paypal will only insist you return the "item" and prove they have had it back etc....

 

I'm sure it will be fine. Ask all the right questions to ensure you are happy they have the item, such as asking technical details they will only know if they have one etc. I have had very few issues in many thousands of transactions. Paypal is actually very safe indeed. For added piece of mind you can pay with paypal off a credit card. You would then be covered by both paypal and the credit card company in the unlikely event of any issues.

Thanks Mike. Hadn't thought of that. 

 

 

[Big Al]

Also, if your PayPal account is funded via a credit card rather than debit or direct to an account, that should provide additional backup?

[Tweedledee]

Yes, I can do Paypal using credit card, thanks. 

[Tweedledee]

To be a bit more specific here's a Hypothetical question to throw out to everyone, prompted by Perkil8rs reply above.

 

Let's imagine I buy this expensive, though bargain priced, secondhand eyepiece via paypal using a credit card, it arrives from the other side of the world, and looks like new on the surface (I've seen the photos), but optically the views are crap, possibly because it has been dropped. Where do I stand? Sounds like I could have the hassle of providing costly expert proof that the item is not suitable for purpose/not as advertised, before any recompense via paypal or credit card could be considered, never mind the possibility of different unenforceable regulations in a foreign country. Buyer beware?

 

Maybe the paypal/credit card makes it all much simpler than the above scenario, but If that could be the case then it would not be worth the hassle, and I'm not willing to take that gamble. 

 

Any other thoughts would be appreciated before I decide to save my money.

[Tweedledee]

Perhaps I could just make do and manage with the couple of eyepieces I already have.  

[Bottletopburly]

Does the seller have history , is he a forum member on other forums , does he post regular , how long has he been a member , does he have a Flickr  or Astro bin account ,these type of questions can backup  if he is a bonafida astronomer in the first place ? 

[Brantuk]

You need to be really sure Pete - either that the bona fide goods will get to you and that they perform as expected - or that you are fully insured for any losses should they not arrive or fail to perform as expected.

If it were me - I personally wouldn't make such a large long distance purchase with so many doubts in the potential chain of events. To me it's wouldn't be worth the hassle - but the choice is yours mate. I'd advise against.

[tuckstar]

Can the vendor provide any vouches? I always ask for vouches when trading my vape stuff. 

So come on Pete, what eyepiece is it?

[philjay]

I would check the credit card rules re coverage using paypal/middle man. I may be wrong or things have changed but I seem to remember a case where a credit card company would not cover loss due to a transaction going through PayPal. It's a grey area of responsibilities

[+Bino-viewer]

I'd be more tempted to go for it, particularly if its something very rare and available for a good price. You'd be missing out otherwise.

Would this chap accept that you return if there is a problem with it ?

 

I always like to think that in the astronomical community worldwide, we are a genuine, fair dinkum sort of bunch.

Thats been my experiance anyway.

 

 

 

[Tweedledee]

15 hours ago, Bottletopburly said:

Does the seller have history , is he a forum member on other forums , does he post regular , how long has he been a member , does he have a Flickr  or Astro bin account ,these type of questions can backup  if he is a bonafida astronomer in the first place ? 

Thanks David. None of the above as far as I can see at the moment, but I'm not letting go of this bargain until I've dug a bit deeper.

 

13 hours ago, Brantuk said:

You need to be really sure Pete - either that the bona fide goods will get to you and that they perform as expected - or that you are fully insured for any losses should they not arrive or fail to perform as expected.

If it were me - I personally wouldn't make such a large long distance purchase with so many doubts in the potential chain of events. To me it's wouldn't be worth the hassle - but the choice is yours mate. I'd advise against.

Good advice thanks Kim. And I'm taking it all in.

 

12 hours ago, tuckstar said:

Can the vendor provide any vouches? I always ask for vouches when trading my vape stuff. 

So come on Pete, what eyepiece is it?

Thanks Andy, I'm asking some questions of him and awaiting his reply.

 

11 hours ago, philjay said:

I would check the credit card rules re coverage using paypal/middle man. I may be wrong or things have changed but I seem to remember a case where a credit card company would not cover loss due to a transaction going through PayPal. It's a grey area of responsibilities

Thanks Phil, I'm checking further as I don't like grey areas unless they are visible parts of nebulae. 

 

9 hours ago, Bino-viewer said:

I'd be more tempted to go for it, particularly if its something very rare and available for a good price. You'd be missing out otherwise.

Would this chap accept that you return if there is a problem with it ?

 

I always like to think that in the astronomical community worldwide, we are a genuine, fair dinkum sort of bunch.

Thats been my experiance anyway.

 

 

 

Thanks Rob, your reply is a bit more positive and expresses just what is keeping me interested in this opportunity, despite the other half of my brain thinking "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is". If it is as advertised with no catches, I have a bargain, otherwise I have a headache. 

So I'm delving into this a bit deeper with fingers crossed. 

[Smithysteve]

Personally, I have a rule if it is second hand. I always travel to the sellers and pick the bits up.

All my scopes, wedges, dome and eyepieces were picked up and transported by yours truly. I have been all over the country for stuff. I have enjoyed meeting with fellow AA’s, enjoyed the travelling and never had a prob.

 

Its not a matter of trusting the seller, I simply don’t trust the delivery and sortation systems involved. I have seen too many handling systems in my old profession! Also I generally cannot wait to get my hands on something! ?

 

But South Korea is too far for me! Good luck, I hope you sort it. ?

[Tweedledee]

21 minutes ago, Smithysteve said:

Personally, I have a rule if it is second hand. I always travel to the sellers and pick the bits up.

All my scopes, wedges, dome and eyepieces were picked up and transported by yours truly. I have been all over the country for stuff. I have enjoyed meeting with fellow AA’s, enjoyed the travelling and never had a prob.

 

Its not a matter of trusting the seller, I simply don’t trust the delivery and sortation systems involved. I have seen too many handling systems in my old profession! Also I generally cannot wait to get my hands on something! ?

 

But South Korea is too far for me! Good luck, I hope you sort it. ?

 

Cheers Steve. I'd love a trip to South Korea. Apparently the country has a lot astronomical observatories and state-of-the-art science institutes.

 

The cost of the trip would slightly negate the bargain aspect. 

 

I would be far more confident if the guy lived a few miles down the road. If the deal was not all kosher, I could drive up and give him an ear bashing as partial recompense. 

[Perkil8r]

If you don't mind Pete, what's the sort of money involved? 

I didn't mean to try and put you off,  was just trying to address some misconceptions that PayPal is 100% safe. 

I usually go with my gut. If I have any doubts I walk away. If I don't have doubts I go for it. Touch wood, never had an issue buying only ever with selling and buyers stealing goods. 

[Smithysteve]

Well, I think I have worked it out! I have found a real bargain being sold in S. Korea ?. This must be the one Pete is hoping to get!

 

A fellow astro chappie is advertising a once in a life time chance! He claims he has sole rights to selling the Hubble Space Telescope, just as soon as the James Webb is up there and working!

He is asking for a goodwill deposit of just 1 million won (South Korean currency £1= 0.00069 won) that’s £690, a real bargain! So I say go for it Pete!

Personally I am waiting for the Webb to come up 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Smithysteve

[Tweedledee]

2 hours ago, Perkil8r said:

If you don't mind Pete, what's the sort of money involved? 

I didn't mean to try and put you off,  was just trying to address some misconceptions that PayPal is 100% safe. 

I usually go with my gut. If I have any doubts I walk away. If I don't have doubts I go for it. Touch wood, never had an issue buying only ever with selling and buyers stealing goods. 

Thanks Mike. No you didn't put me off at all. Your reply highlighted a potential problem that I hadn't thought of. I've never bought anything second-hand of any real value from abroad, so have been weighing up the pros and cons of risking quite a few hundred pounds on this deal on the other side of the world. My finances are currently a bit tight after having just treated myself and my 17 year old son to brand new cars, both by coincidence from South Korean company Hyundai. For this reason I need to keep a good reign on my finances at the moment.

I have just had a reply from the South Korean seller who has satisfactorily answered all my questions, some quite technical, in pigeon english , and has now put my mind at rest that the deal is good.

All you EMS'ers are brilliant. Everyone who has replied above has given me genuine helpful information that has allowed me to better understand the possible pitfalls of these type of long distance transactions. This information has given me more confidence on how best to do these deals now and in the future and enabled me to quickly cut through all the small print thanks to everyone's combined knowledge and experience. Cheers 

 

If I don't get scammed I will hopefully be putting up some wide angle photos in Latest Purchases. 

 

50 minutes ago, Smithysteve said:

Well, I think I have worked it out! I have found a real bargain being sold in S. Korea ?. This must be the one Pete is hoping to get!

 

A fellow astro chappie is advertising a once in a life time chance! He claims he has sole rights to selling the Hubble Space Telescope, just as soon as the James Webb is up there and working!

He is asking for a goodwill deposit of just 1 million won (South Korean currency £1= 0.00069 won) that’s £690, a real bargain! So I say go for it Pete!

Personally I am waiting for the Webb to come up 

Well Steve, you're bang on the money.