Tweedledee Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Been reading up on guiding but would like some further advice please. Can someone please explain the pros and cons of me using a standalone autoguider (Skywatcher Synguider Autoguider II) or a conventional guider using a QHY, ZWO or GPCAM type setup? My main priorities here include... 1. Keeping it simple because I have no experience in AP. 2. Minimizing cables as I don't like them trailing around in the dark. 3. Minimizing setup time. If achieving these priorities involves extra cost, then I consider it value for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red dwalf Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 absolutely no experience using the skywatcher autoguider, but i use a 60 mm altair astro non rotating helical scope and a zwo asi 120 mm camera, my camera is the older type and doesn't like powered hubs, not sure about the newer ones, but a cheap normal non active 5 meter usb cable off ebay sorted that problem out, cost £1.49, using a qhy camera should be fine as i know a few people use them through hubs, the chip is plenty big enough so loads of starts to choose from plus it will screw onto the rear of the guide scope rather than compression fitting which i`m not a fan of, you`ll need to attach the guiding rig to the scope very securely so that there is no movement or flex in the system, once sorted simply start PHD and choose the camera drivers and mount once and press connect, phd will remember the settings so it will be a case on just pressing connect in future and you`ll be running. Tweedledee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedledee Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 Thanks very much Rob. Lots of useful info there and just the sort of guidance I'm looking for. ? It sounds simpler to set up guiding than I thought it would be. QHY seems reliable and popular with EMS'ers, and now you've pointed it out, screwing it on is definitely good for peace of mind. PHD will also remember stuff better than me. ? Before I ditch the autoguider idea, it would be good to hear any comments from anyone who has used one. It seems to slightly negate the autoguider name that you have to put a crosshair eyepiece in and accurately centre a star and then replace it with the autoguider camera everytime. Seems like more faffing about to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philjay Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) I bought one some years ago for all the same reasons as you have listed thinking it would be nice and simple for imaging in the field. Yeah right, I sold it after about 10 goes with it, what a faff. I am not alone in this process and opinion either, I have spoken to a few others who have been down the same route and then put the thing on UKABS and reverted to more conventional guiding. However I have spoken to others who like them. I had the Synguider. It was not easy to get to focus, eventually I managed it. The screen and keypad was on the unit itself so chances are the screen is going to be at some daft position where you have to go into contortions to read it. Then when you eventually get a star on the screen and press any buttons to start the calibration, you would nudge the thing and lose the star, so a very solid fixing arrangement is required. Also this happens after calibration as well. Plus if you need reading glasses its a pain. So as far as minimising set up time is concerned I found I was wasting more time faffing with this than using a lappy and guide cam. The Synguider I had didnt do sub pixel guiding, eg not as accurate, but maybe they have improved now, dont know. I understand some have hand controls now so that eliminates some of the faff. But some like them so its definitely a marmite piece of kit. Edited October 30, 2018 by philjay Tweedledee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ibbo Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I woulsd also suggest the finder guider method. just make sure it cannot shift or flex. Tweedledee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottletopburly Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 My limited experience with auto guiding I have been using the qhy mini guide scope nice and light with the qhy5l-11 colour no problem finding stars , can use it with sharpcap polar align as long as your within the 5deg fov limit I don’t use the finder scope at all , APT and platesolving Tweedledee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+RonC Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I too tried a Synguider!! Could not get on with it at all and sold it a few weeks later!! I use a QHY5R-11 (£89 from FLO) and a guider/finder scope (I also use a hub OK) I also use PHD 1.44 as i finder that easier than 2.00. Cheers Ron Tweedledee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Graham Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Let's start at the beginning. What sort of imaging are you looking to do. Planetary or dso. What imaging camera will you be using. Mono or colour. Tweedledee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedledee Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, Graham said: Let's start at the beginning. What sort of imaging are you looking to do. Planetary or dso. What imaging camera will you be using. Mono or colour. Initially I want to have a go at imaging DSO's using the Altair Hypercam 183c one shot colour. I'll be imaging using various short focal lengths from camera lenses and various scopes up to a maximum of 760mm FL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Graham Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I am assuming you will be using your adapter with the lenses. Are you going to mount this adapter on top of your scope. Just wondering how you are going to mount a guide camera / scope. Tweedledee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedledee Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, Graham said: I am assuming you will be using your adapter with the lenses. Are you going to mount this adapter on top of your scope. Just wondering how you are going to mount a guide camera / scope. Yes, the adapter can be used to fit the Hypercam to my 50mm lens or my 70-210mm zoom. I have 80mm, 120mm and 152mm refractors all F5 plus a 0.8x reducer that fits them. I probably have more finder adapters scope adapters and dovetail fittings than FLO! Have no doubt that I can mount several scopes and half a dozen finder/guiders on that AZEQ5, if I wanted to. I have various adjustable and non-adjustable fittings for finder or scope sized dovetails to cover just about any situation. Just name a configuration and I can probably set it up that way. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philjay Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) Just had a look at the synguider 2, it has remote buttons which helps a little but here is an extract from S@N review The autoguiding system works very well, but it isn’t as easy to set up as a more conventional guide camera and PC system. This is because of the need to swap between the eyepiece and the camera, although you soon get into the routine. The position of the screen on the rear of the camera isn’t ideal, especially for objects high in the sky: we had to do quite a lot of crawling around to view it properly. Using a star diagonal would make the system much more comfortable to use, but at the risk of introducing some instability. Exactly why I sold mine, I forgot that you had to find a guide star first with an eyepiece then swap to the synguider. Too many things to shift about. Far simpler with a prefocused guide cam in a finder guider. Edited October 30, 2018 by philjay Tweedledee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 If it helps I’ve a syncguider sat in a box, it’s too much messing about. Focus is hard to achieve swapping out eyepieces and the syncguider with parfocal rings. I use a 50mm guidescope with a Altair mono camera. If your looking to cut down on wires then products like the ASiair or Stellar Mate are the way toward. Your more than welcome to try Syncguider I have. Tweedledee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedledee Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, philjay said: Just had a look at the synguider 2, it has remote buttons which helps a little but here is an extract from S@N review The autoguiding system works very well, but it isn’t as easy to set up as a more conventional guide camera and PC system. This is because of the need to swap between the eyepiece and the camera, although you soon get into the routine. The position of the screen on the rear of the camera isn’t ideal, especially for objects high in the sky: we had to do quite a lot of crawling around to view it properly. Using a star diagonal would make the system much more comfortable to use, but at the risk of introducing some instability. Exactly why I sold mine, I forgot that you had to find a guide star first with an eyepiece then swap to the synguider. Too many things to shift about. Far simpler with a prefocused guide cam in a finder guider. 1 hour ago, Alec said: If it helps I’ve a syncguider sat in a box, it’s too much messing about. Focus is hard to achieve swapping out eyepieces and the syncguider with parfocal rings. I use a 50mm guidescope with a Altair mono camera. If your looking to cut down on wires then products like the ASiair or Stellar Mate are the way toward. Your more than welcome to try Syncguider I have. Thanks very much Phil and Alec. ? After everyones glowing reports, the Syncguider has now been firmly struck off my list. ? I've looked into the ASIair and Stellarmate as a way to cut out trailing cables. The ASIair is just a bit too specific as it only work with ASI cameras. I am seriously considering the Stellarmate, but looking in detail, the software/drivers setup and configuration of it is daunting, at least for me, but I suppose it only needs to be done once and EVERYTHING is wifi. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bino-viewer Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 The minefield of astrophotography....... I'm also going to be looking at autoguiders in the not too distant future. With me using a powered Alt Az mount, they may be a necessity. I will be using my DSLR rather than a dedicated astro camera, and control the whole thing (guiding and image acquisition) from my iPad. Thats the plan. This is the guide camera i have on my shortlist : (they also do a cheaper, older version.) https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/qhy5l-ii-monochrome-planetaryguide-camera.html Tweedledee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedledee Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 45 minutes ago, Bino-viewer said: The minefield of astrophotography....... I'm also going to be looking at autoguiders in the not too distant future. With me using a powered Alt Az mount, they may be a necessity. I will be using my DSLR rather than a dedicated astro camera, and control the whole thing (guiding and image acquisition) from my iPad. Thats the plan. This is the guide camera i have on my shortlist : (they also do a cheaper, older version.) https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/qhy5l-ii-monochrome-planetaryguide-camera.html That does seem to be a popular one Rob. Am I missing something or is this a different package at a substantially cheaper price? https://www.modernastronomy.com/shop/cameras/guide-cameras/qhy-guide-cameras/qhy5-ii-mono/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottletopburly Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 45 minutes ago, Bino-viewer said: The minefield of astrophotography....... I'm also going to be looking at autoguiders in the not too distant future. With me using a powered Alt Az mount, they may be a necessity. I will be using my DSLR rather than a dedicated astro camera, and control the whole thing (guiding and image acquisition) from my iPad. Thats the plan. This is the guide camera i have on my shortlist : (they also do a cheaper, older version.) https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/qhy5l-ii-monochrome-planetaryguide-camera.html i have had the colour version a few years now been a good little camera to date +RonC and Tweedledee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottletopburly Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Tweedledee said: I am seriously considering the Stellarmate, but looking in detail, the software/drivers setup and configuration of it is daunting, at least for me, but I suppose it only needs to be done once and EVERYTHING is wifi. i must admit stellarmate does look good and Kstars does seem to have a good following Tweedledee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+RonC Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 This is a highly thought of guide cam: www.firstlightoptics.com/guide-cameras/zwo-asi120mm-usb-2-mono-camera.html and a good price at the moment!! Ron Tweedledee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bino-viewer Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 The one i linked was the QHY 5L - ii I assume its the newer version with a smarter set of bells + whistles. Tweedledee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedledee Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 28 minutes ago, Bino-viewer said: The one i linked was the QHY 5L - ii I assume its the newer version with a smarter set of bells + whistles. Thanks Rob, I see now that the L makes a difference. ? Scrolling down the Modern Astronomy link, it shows a comparison of the 5 series. The cheaper one has a different chip bigger pixels and lower quantum efficiency among other things. 36 minutes ago, Ron Clarke said: This is a highly thought of guide cam: www.firstlightoptics.com/guide-cameras/zwo-asi120mm-usb-2-mono-camera.html and a good price at the moment!! Ron Yes, I see that is also a main contender. Thanks Ron. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I'm using a Skywatcher Evoguide 50ED and a GP Cam Pro 130 Mono. Really is a reliable setup. https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-evoguide-50ed-50mm-guidescope.html https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/altair-astro-gpcam-v2-mono-ar0130-mono-guide-imaging-camera.html Tweedledee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedledee Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 23 minutes ago, Alec said: I'm using a Skywatcher Evoguide 50ED and a GP Cam Pro 130 Mono. Really is a reliable setup. https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-evoguide-50ed-50mm-guidescope.html https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/altair-astro-gpcam-v2-mono-ar0130-mono-guide-imaging-camera.html Very nice, I've looked at that 50ed. It does look ideal as a well corrected scope, if a bit OTT for guiding perhaps. Some people have commented on other forums that it could dual as a nice wide field visual scope, but apparently it won't come to focus with a diagonal. It looks very nice, and a bit different with the colours and the non-rotating focusing ring. Definitely the best looking guidescope I've seen. The cam is also nice. Lots of food for thought here, need to make the decision and push the button. ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Graham Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) If you don't mind paying the extra the best guide cameras are the SX loadstars. Cost a bit more but their sensitivity is legendary. Before you ask yes I do use one. Edited October 30, 2018 by Graham Tweedledee and +Ibbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedledee Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 43 minutes ago, Graham said: If you don't mind paying the extra the best guide cameras are the SX loadstars. Cost a bit more but their sensitivity is legendary. Before you ask yes I do use one. Thanks Graham. ? At over £400, I consider the Lodestar as an upgrade if I actually get to grips with this AP stuff. At the moment with the lower quality tackle I'm using and my own lack of experience, I think I'll stick with the cheaper guide cameras for now. When I know what I'm doing, there would be various upgrades I would be looking at. This is a big learning curve and I'm not even off the flat yet. Still waiting for RVO to call so I can collect the AZEQ5. Perhaps best learning to walk before I can run. ? +Graham 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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