Baader Neodymium Filter 1.12” or 2”

[Paul Tomo]

I’m going to buy this Baader filter but I’m not sure which size I need to buy, either the 1.25” or the 2”. The scope I’m using at the moment is the 200p witch is 1.25” and the lenses that I’m changing to are the Baarder Hyperian. These lenses are suitable for 1.25” or 2” view finders and I would like to buy the Skywatcher 250pds which I think will take both 1.25” or 2” eyepieces. But my question is which size filter do I buy?

 

Thanks Paul Tomo

[Paul Tomo]

46 minutes ago, Paul Tomo said:

I’m going to buy this Baader filter but I’m not sure which size I need to buy, either the 1.25” or the 2”. The scope I’m using at the moment is the 200p witch is 1.25” and the lenses that I’m changing to are the Baarder Hyperian. These lenses are suitable for 1.25” or 2” view finders and I would like to buy the Skywatcher 250pds which I think will take both 1.25” or 2” eyepieces. But my question is which size filter do I buy? But I would like to use it for the two scopes if possible.

 

Thanks Paul Tomo

 

[Nightspore]

What eyepieces will you mainly use with the filter? I have both sizes and the 1.25" is probably the most used as I tend to use it for lunar/planetary eyepieces of 1.25".

[Paul Tomo]

2 hours ago, Nightspore said:

What eyepieces will you mainly use with the filter? I have both sizes and the 1.25" is probably the most used as I tend to use it for lunar/planetary eyepieces of 1.25".

I have only one of the Baader Hyperion eyepiece at the moment and that’s the 17mm and when I use it and see what it’s like I then may buy other’s, maybe 13mm and 10mm and see from there. What would you recommend are these eyepieces ok for planetary/luna

Edited August 26, 2020 by Paul Tomo

[Nightspore]

I think it depends on what magnifications you are getting with them. Basically, you'll want around an 0.7 ~ 0.5mm exit pupil at least for lunar and planetary. 

 

I believe your scope is about f/6 with a 1200mm focal length. I believe a 17mm eyepiece will give 70.5x in your scope. This is pushing a 3mm exit pupil, so more a mid range magnification really. 

 

For DSO's and rich field it's best to aim for eyepieces giving a range between a 1.5mm exit pupil to around 4.5mm exit pupil. I believe many spotting scopes are deliberately designed in this range as it suits most people's visual acuity.

 

To calculate the exit pupil you may find this chart useful. I can't remember where I swiped it from, possibly the TV site lol.

 

 

For lunar/planetary you want around a 1mm to 0.5mm exit pupil. 

 

Also, I'm not totally sure how Hyperions are at f/6, there may be lateral or edge astigmatism.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Nightspore

[tuckstar]

Although the hyperions will sit in a two inch focusor the barrel is only 1.25. So a two inch won't fit unless you remove the barrel which then changes the f/l of the eyepiece. So I would go with the 1.25.

I found they were great eyepieces at f7 but at f5 they struggle with coma. When I got my 250px I got rid of them and went for the es 100°. They still show coma but that's the scope rather than the eyepieces. I had a sky watcher panaview 32mm that was a nice eyepiece for the money and worked well in the 250.

Edited August 27, 2020 by tuckstar

[Paul Tomo]

6 hours ago, tuckstar said:

Although the hyperions will sit in a two inch focusor the barrel is only 1.25. So a two inch won't fit unless you remove the barrel which then changes the f/l of the eyepiece. So I would go with the 1.25.

I found they were great eyepieces at f7 but at f5 they struggle with coma. When I got my 250px I got rid of them and went for the es 100°. They still show coma but that's the scope rather than the eyepieces. I had a sky watcher panaview 32mm that was a nice eyepiece for the money and worked well in the 250.

So does this mean I’ve spent £95 on a eyepiece that’s needing something else like a coma correction ??

 

[Paul Tomo]

13 hours ago, Nightspore said:

I think it depends on what magnifications you are getting with them. Basically, you'll want around an 0.7 ~ 0.5mm exit pupil at least for lunar and planetary. 

 

I believe your scope is about f/6 with a 1200mm focal length. I believe a 17mm eyepiece will give 70.5x in your scope. This is pushing a 3mm exit pupil, so more a mid range magnification really. 

 

For DSO's and rich field it's best to aim for eyepieces giving a range between a 1.5mm exit pupil to around 4.5mm exit pupil. I believe many spotting scopes are deliberately designed in this range as it suits most people's visual acuity.

 

To calculate the exit pupil you may find this chart useful. I can't remember where I swiped it from, possibly the TV site lol.

 

 

For lunar/planetary you want around a 1mm to 0.5mm exit pupil. 

 

Also, I'm not totally sure how Hyperions are at f/6, there may be lateral or edge astigmatism.

I’m sure the scope is 1000mm and f/5. You’ve lost me in all this technical jargon 🤔

Edited August 27, 2020 by Paul Tomo

[Clive]

33 minutes ago, Paul Tomo said:

I’m sure the scope is 1000mm and f/5. You’ve lost me in all this technical jargon 🤔

Based upon Nightspores exit pupil values and rearranging the numbers for your F5 scope means that for planetary viewing you will need an eyepiece with a FL between 2.5 and 3.5 mm, but for DSO an eyepiece(s) between 7.5 and 22.5 mm FL. With my late F6 scope I had 4, 6, 10, 16 and 25 mm eyepieces which would be equivalent to 3, 5, 8, 13 and 21 mm for your F5 scope.  The most used were the 10 and 25 mm and I hardly ever had seeing good enough to use the 4 mm.

[Nightspore]

38 minutes ago, Paul Tomo said:

I’m sure the scope is 1000mm and f/5. You’ve lost me in all this technical jargon 🤔

I thought you said you were using one of these: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

 

An f/5 scope with a 1000mm f/l would have a 200mm aperture. The Skywatcher Explorer 250PDS you also mentioned is f/4.7. Personally, I wouldn't use Baader Hyperions in an f/4.7 scope, it's not just coma that will be the problem. 

 

Probably a good idea to study some technical jargon before you spend any money. Trust me on this, it will save you money in the long run. 

 

Exit pupils are a good guide to what eyepieces will work with a specific scope. All you need to do is divide the eyepiece focal length by the focal ratio of your scope.

 

Exit pupils between 0.5mm to 1mm (or smaller) are usually used for lunar/planetary and often for splitting doubles.

 

Exit pupils between 1.5mm to 4.5mm are generally used for DSO's.

 

Exit pupils around 5mm to 7mm can be used for rich field or faint nebulae. 

 

 

[tuckstar]

1 hour ago, Paul Tomo said:

So does this mean I’ve spent £95 on a eyepiece that’s needing something else like a coma correction ??

 

Not necessarily. Some people don't mind a little bit of coma. But the views were definitely not as crisp as they were in my old scope.

[Nightspore]

Example: f/7, 102mm Altair Starwave

 

 

6 - 3 mm TV Nagler Zoom ~ 0.8mm to 0.4mm exit pupil. High magnification lunar/planetary.

 

 

14mm Baader Morpheus ~ 2mm exit pupil. DSO's.

 

 

27mm Panoptic ~ 3.8mm exit pupil. DSO's.

 

 

55mm TV Plossl ~ 7.8mm exit pupil. Very low magnification. Rarely used.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Nightspore

[Paul Tomo]

1 hour ago, Nightspore said:

Example: f/7, 102mm Altair Starwave

 

 

6 - 3 mm TV Nagler Zoom ~ 0.8mm to 0.4mm exit pupil. High magnification lunar/planetary.

 

 

14mm Baader Morpheus ~ 2mm exit pupil. DSO's.

 

 

27mm Panoptic ~ 3.8mm exit pupil. DSO's.

 

 

55mm TV Plossl ~ 7.8mm exit pupil. Very low magnification. Rarely used.

 

 

I’ve not got a DSO. Mine looks the same has the explorer 200p. Plus I don’t understand what you are showing me With these lenses, I don’t know enough yet to Understand all the tech stuff, it’s been a bit of a nightmare setting my mount up and that’s finished yet.

[tuckstar]

He is referring to the eyepieces he uses for Deep Sky Objects DSO's, also known as faint fuzzies, but technically anything outside of our solar system.

Don't worry about too much jargon. It took me ages to understand some of this and still would have to refer elsewhere if I was asked. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by tuckstar

[Nightspore]

1 hour ago, Paul Tomo said:

I’ve not got a DSO. Mine looks the same has the explorer 200p. Plus I don’t understand what you are showing me With these lenses, I don’t know enough yet to Understand all the tech stuff, it’s been a bit of a nightmare setting my mount up and that’s finished yet.

As tuckstar said, it's just an acronym for Deep Sky Objects. So; basically everything that isn't the Moon or planets. The eyepieces I showed you would give high to mid to low magnifications. I was trying to give you an idea of the general spread of magnifications you would probably need with any telescope.

 

For the Moon or planetary objects I would advise 1.25" eyepieces of 50 to 60 degrees field of view. With a 1000mm focal length, and being f/5, your scope isn't really intended for high planetary magnifications.  5mm and 7mm eyepieces would give 200x and 167x respectively. These would be good magnifications for a 200mm aperture for Mars and the Moon. Saturn and Jupiter are a little low at the moment but 167x is certainly do-able in good conditions.

 

If you want to look at starfields, open clusters and the like, I'd recommend a widefield between 20mm and 30mm.

 

At the end of the day, I'd aim at a spread of eyepieces (maybe three) giving magnifications of around 150x to 200x, 70 to 100x and 30x to 50x. The eyepieces giving the lower magnifications can be 2" versions. 

 

I'd hold off buying a neodymium filter until you know what eyepieces you are going to use for what targets. If it helps, I only really use a Baader Neodymium for lunar/planetary observing at high magnifications. 

 

[Paul Tomo]

10 hours ago, Nightspore said:

As tuckstar said, it's just an acronym for Deep Sky Objects. So; basically everything that isn't the Moon or planets. The eyepieces I showed you would give high to mid to low magnifications. I was trying to give you an idea of the general spread of magnifications you would probably need with any telescope.

 

For the Moon or planetary objects I would advise 1.25" eyepieces of 50 to 60 degrees field of view. With a 1000mm focal length, and being f/5, your scope isn't really intended for high planetary magnifications.  5mm and 7mm eyepieces would give 200x and 167x respectively. These would be good magnifications for a 200mm aperture for Mars and the Moon. Saturn and Jupiter are a little low at the moment but 167x is certainly do-able in good conditions.

 

If you want to look at starfields, open clusters and the like, I'd recommend a widefield between 20mm and 30mm.

 

At the end of the day, I'd aim at a spread of eyepieces (maybe three) giving magnifications of around 150x to 200x, 70 to 100x and 30x to 50x. The eyepieces giving the lower magnifications can be 2" versions. 

 

I'd hold off buying a neodymium filter until you know what eyepieces you are going to use for what targets. If it helps, I only really use a Baader Neodymium for lunar/planetary observing at high magnifications. 

 

Thanks Nightspore,

 

What you have written here is more understandable and easier for me to take in. The lenses I’m using now are the X-Cel LX 5mm,12mm and 25mm and I do find these lenses very good for what I need. When I look at Jupiter and Saturn through the 5mm and  12mm eyepieces I struggle to see some of the details on these planets, and due to the brightness of these planets I decided to buy the filter mentioned.  

 

The reason I’ve started to buy the Baader Hyperion range of lenses was to make an upgrade from the ones that I use now, at the same time of moving to these lenses I thought this filter would benefit these lenses and help to bring out more details of these planets plus lowing the brightness of the moon. I guess with what you are saying the filter would benefit the 8mm or 10mm Hyperion lens has these lenses will magnify the planets more.

 

The Hyperion are 1.25” and 2” plus attachments can be fitted using the ring system; filters and camera.
 

 

[tuckstar]

This is a useful chart if your going with the hyperions. Gives the various focal lengths with rings and without the first group, that's the lenses in the 1.25 bit which unscrews fir the rings or just as a stand alone 2". Be ware though it's a faf changing them about at night in a dark field.

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by tuckstar

[Nightspore]

Everything Baader's like a bloody Meccano set lol. 

[Nightspore]

7 hours ago, Paul Tomo said:

Thanks Nightspore,

 

What you have written here is more understandable and easier for me to take in. The lenses I’m using now are the X-Cel LX 5mm,12mm and 25mm and I do find these lenses very good for what I need. When I look at Jupiter and Saturn through the 5mm and  12mm eyepieces I struggle to see some of the details on these planets, and due to the brightness of these planets I decided to buy the filter mentioned.  

 

The reason I’ve started to buy the Baader Hyperion range of lenses was to make an upgrade from the ones that I use now, at the same time of moving to these lenses I thought this filter would benefit these lenses and help to bring out more details of these planets plus lowing the brightness of the moon. I guess with what you are saying the filter would benefit the 8mm or 10mm Hyperion lens has these lenses will magnify the planets more.

 

The Hyperion are 1.25” and 2” plus attachments can be fitted using the ring system; filters and camera.
 

 

You're welcome. Actually more magnification will darken the image anyway. I use a single polarising filter on the Moon quite often as this kills the glare. Neutral Density filters also stop a lot of glare, particularly for lunar viewing. Jupiter and Saturn are both past opposition now, although Jupiter is still bright. 

 

 

Variable polarisers can work well on very bright objects like Venus. The Baader Neodymium has often been described as the 'Swiss Army Knife' of filters. I've used one for years as they can help define surface features on planets, particularly Mars.

 

 

I'd get the 1.25" if you're going to use it for high magnifications. 

 

I have a 9mm XL LX, and I found it to be very good in faster scopes. They are supposed to have identical elements to the Meade HD series. I wouldn't underestimate the XL's. I also have 12mm Meade and XL eyepieces and they have identical focal planes.

 

 

They are so similar they can actually be used in my binoviewer. My guess is they're both made by JOC. I'm not sure that the Hyperions are an upgrade. I was always led to believe they weren't so good in faster scopes. I always wanted to try one though. For lunar/planetary I'm a bit old school and prefer orthoscopics, or Takahashi LE's. Plossls and ortho's are a simpler design and there is less ghosting and light scatter on bright targets in my experience. I'm also a fan of the TV DeLites. 

 

 

These 58 degree TS Optics Planetary HR's are good planetary/lunar eyepieces. I think they're TMB clones in some respects. I'm not sure who makes the 4.5mm with the white end cap in the picture. I'm fairly sure the rest are made by Barsta (BST).

 

 

I'd prefer these over the Hyperions for lunar/planetary. They are also good in fast scopes when used for rich field observing.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Nightspore

[Paul Tomo]

Hopefully tomorrow i will receive in the post my new filter and flocking sheets. After having a night of looking at Jupiter, Saturn and the moon i decided to buy the filter, the moon is too bright to look at without a filter. 

[Nightspore]

The best filters to dim the brightness are a single polariser or a neutral density. A neodymium on its own won't be enough. Or just up the magnification.

 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/baader-filters/baader-single-polarising-filter.html

 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/baader-filters/baader-neutral-density-moon-filters.html

[philjay]

Plus one for variable polariser on moon and brighter planets

[Nightspore]

I have the 1.25" Baader Variable Polariser. Not cheap, but worth the money.

[Paul Tomo]

I have bought the filter mentioned and i used it last night with my new Baader Hyperion 8mm eyepiece which was used for the first time last night as well. The first of two planets that i viewed was Jupiter, i would say that a little more detail of the two red lines was shown and slight more contrast made to Jupiter making more pleasing to look at. Saturn was the same, more detail seen in the rings and better shadows being casted. I guess its got to be worth it. 

 

I would have explored the sky a little more last night but the clouds put a stop it my nights work.

[Nightspore]

The Baader Neodymium is good for bringing out the red end of the spectrum on Jupiter, especially the GRS. I have never found it particularly useful on Saturn though. A #11 Wratten (yellow-green) is effective on Saturn. The Neodymium can help with Martian albedo features, although it cools the overall image.