Street lighting - Neighbourhood watch survey

[dawson]

The results of a survery recently conducted by the neighbourhood watch people on street lighting and turning it off after midnight:

 

http://www.ourwatch.org.uk/resource_centre/document_library/nhwn_suzy_lamplugh_trust_perceptions_of_safety_report/?cat_id=21

 

Unfortunately mine has never gone off in West Bridgford.

 

JD

 

[catman161]

Ours go off at midnight mon-thurs and 1am Fri-sun

[xanthic]

Interesting reading. It seems the whole issue is skewed by perceptions of personal safety. It's a shame there is no correlation with any actual data.

[+Ibbo]

not a lot of hard facts mainly perceptions

 

surveys like this are a waste of time

[dawson]

I would like the street lights to go off, but I am biased; I'd like a darker night sky and I am youngish and not particularly frightened of being mugged/burgled... there is always a risk, but  I'd just give them whatever they wanted and accept I may get a black eye.

However, there are lots of elderly people, people living alone, people who feel vulnerable, people of less sound psychological state etc who are constantly frightened about these sorts of things and they feel the by turning the lights off they would feel even more vulnerable.

There is some evidence that some crimes fall as the street lights go off, but these are largely results from short term interventions, and if all the street lights went off, I imagine people doing burglaries would soon think of alternative way of breaking in and stealing.

I also suspect if the council stopped putting lights on, people would just put even more security lighting on the outsides of their homes and have motion sensors which would detect a leaf blowing by so lights would be flashing on and off and in all directions constantly; this would likely be even more of a nuisance.

So, I don't think the fact it reflects opinion rather than fact makes it useless.

You also have to remember, that most people who sign up to these sort of things are security conscious, and are more than likely to be swayed towards leaving the lights on.

I just need to move somewhere where there are fewer nearby houses, and a better horizon.

JD

[Big Al]

Our village (Swannington) was one of the first to have the lights go off at midnight (so I was told) as a trial. I was also told that crime actually went down slightly afterwards...

 

Alan

[stash]

I would like the street lights to go off, but I am biased; I'd like a darker night sky and I am youngish and not particularly frightened of being mugged/burgled... there is always a risk, but  I'd just give them whatever they wanted and accept I may get a black eye.

However, there are lots of elderly people, people living alone, people who feel vulnerable, people of less sound psychological state etc who are constantly frightened about these sorts of things and they feel the by turning the lights off they would feel even more vulnerable.

There is some evidence that some crimes fall as the street lights go off, but these are largely results from short term interventions, and if all the street lights went off, I imagine people doing burglaries would soon think of alternative way of breaking in and stealing.

I also suspect if the council stopped putting lights on, people would just put even more security lighting on the outsides of their homes and have motion sensors which would detect a leaf blowing by so lights would be flashing on and off and in all directions constantly; this would likely be even more of a nuisance.

So, I don't think the fact it reflects opinion rather than fact makes it useless.

You also have to remember, that most people who sign up to these sort of things are security conscious, and are more than likely to be swayed towards leaving the lights on.

I just need to move somewhere where there are fewer nearby houses, and a better horizon.

JD

Well said MR D,

 

However I have found the ideal site for you:-

 

1. Warm all year round

2. Lack of Lights of any sort

3. Great horizons

4. NO other pollution

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Helena

 

If it was good enough for Napoleon 

 

Actually I seriously thought of moving there especially now its got an airport (think its finished in 2016!) .

[xanthic]

Our village (Swannington) was one of the first to have the lights go off at midnight (so I was told) as a trial. I was also told that crime actually went down slightly afterwards...

 

Alan

From what I've read, that seems to be the case in most places. A high percentage of burglaries are commited during the day when people are out, so lighting isn't a deterrent. If it's pitch black, everyone is going to need a torch to see. If someone is poking around then they'll stand out like a sore thumb.

 

It's also a shame that public health wasn't in there. It'd be interesting to know if people (and wildlife) were sleeping better due to the removal of artificial light.

[Toymaster]

Recently our lighting in my part of Evington was changed to LED down-lighters. It is a cold light (High colour temperature - White) but very cheep to run and it is staying on all night.

 

Since it was changed I'm sure the night sky is darker with no orange glow, probably due to the lanterns putting more light directly down on the street and probably not quite as bright. Didn't like them at first but now - bring it on...   I now have my own Darksite - Almost.

 

Ade

Edited January 29, 2014 by Toymaster

[+Ibbo]

I too have read that a lot of trials have resulted in a reduction of burglaries and also that most happen in daylight

 anyway.

 

That is also my experience twice in the middle of the afternoon and the PC who came round(yes actually attended) said it was the most common time as folks were working or picking the kids up from school.

 

I doubt many would notice the turn off between  12-30 and 5-30  if it was not for the likes of my local councillor who sent out an A4 sheet with his opinion that crime would be rife if they were switched off around here with absolutely no evidence whatsoever, his comment was everybody knows crime and anti social behaviour will increase if we turn off the lights.

 

Further to me asking the times of his witnessing of anti social behaviour was when the lights were still on at around 8 to 10 in the evening outside the local Co Op and Community centre where they have lights.

 

I challenged him to give me proof of increased crime where they have been turned off and have no further replies to my e mails.

 

as I said it is feeling and perception with no hard facts.

 

I do agree that there will be a rash of insecurity lights until the bulb fails or they get the bill for the electric.

 

Off the soap box and will retire to the kennel.

[Toymaster]

Good points Steve...

 

Experience in our locality is that burglaries have happened in the afternoon and evening before midnight.

 

Ade 

[+Ibbo]

nips out of kennel

 

I did quite a bit of research into this a few years ago for a talk I did a few times.

 

I had a folder full of stuff about it, reports from all over the world as well.

It was on slides and OHP's

 

goes for another lie down after all that typing

Edited January 29, 2014 by Ibbo

[Big Al]

Well said MR D,

 

However I have found the ideal site for you:-

 

1. Warm all year round

2. Lack of Lights of any sort

3. Great horizons

4. NO other pollution

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Helena

 

If it was good enough for Napoleon 

 

Actually I seriously thought of moving there especially now its got an airport (think its finished in 2016!) .

Yes, but have you seen their internet speed??? 

[Brantuk]

I've never been burgled at night - but I have been burgled in broad daylight whilst out of the house (they were watching behaviour patterns around the estate and striking when the coast was clear).

 

That survey seems to be based on "what people feel" rather than "what actually happened". These sort of surveys really say and prove absolutely nothing - you may as well survey the cat.

 

Whilst I'm sympathetic to older or more sensitive people - I think that has more to do with them being conditioned by modern society to expect light 24hrs a day, rather than any rational explanation for their fear. What did these type of people do before electricity was even discovered and there was no choice? And who's gonna even care when we run out of resources to light the world up like a xmas tree all hours of day and night?

 

I can't stand these kind of surveys - they just mislead people and before you know it everyone is claiming the results as fact. They're as bad as the ridiculously speculative news media if you ask me. If I was in charge I'd ban both "night lighting", "misleading surveys", and "speculative news reporting".

[stash]

Yes, but have you seen their internet speed??? 

yes better than Cranwell - Ron is ok here's near the EX - I am not 

[glider]

Personally I'm willing to drive the extra mile to an area with intense street lighting to do my robbing. Basically I stick out like a sore thumb in dark areas where the lights are off as I have to use a torch otherwise I might trip over in the dark and have to sue the householder for not considering my heath and safety.

 

Joking aside, my local neighbourhood watch was impressed to consider that on clear nights they had all night on site coverage for free, basically me sitting in the garden with a bottle of Jack keeping an eye on the gardens for free.

[dawson]

Lol @ Noel

[glider]

LOl. But the second paragraph is true.

 

We had a community meeting and someone mentioned paying for a "guard". Obviously I offered to do the job for a consideration on clear nights.

[philjay]

Our council proudly announced a timed switch off of certain street lights in our village and have dutifully placed stickers on all the lights that this affects, 12 out of 20 They havent taken on board my suggestion to turn 50 or more % of the sodium light show on the deserted a50 island 2 mikes away which gives a massive light dome.

One of my pet gripes is when folks from the city areas, used to 24 hour light, move into the vilage. They immediately stick halogens all over their property. IF YOU DONT LIKE THE DARK, DONT MOVE TO THE COUNTRY.

[dawson]

One of my pet gripes is when folks from the city areas, used to 24 hour light, move into the vilage. They immediately stick halogens all over their property. IF YOU DONT LIKE THE DARK, DONT MOVE TO THE COUNTRY.

 

That would really hack me off too, hence why I'd prefer to live where I couldn't even see any 'neighbours', so even if they did light up their place it wouldn't have any impact on me.

 

I'm really not into people full stop

 

JD

[xanthic]

Perhaps there should be bylaws controlling the use of such lights? There's nothing wrong with them, providing they are positioned correctly, are of an appropriate wattage and are not on permanently. Though what are the chances of that?

[philjay]

A few years back during my cycling hayday I used to do a midweek 25mile training run during winter around the lanes hereabouts and my personal best for turning maladjusted pir detector halogens on was 11.

I would be cycling along a deserted lane in the middle of the countryside and wham! Suddenly blinded by someones halogen lamp pointed directly at the road. Very dangerous. But what use is that as a deterent, middle of nowhere, no neighbours etc. It just makes life easier for scalies

[stash]

A few years back during my cycling hayday I used to do a midweek 25mile training run during winter around the lanes hereabouts and my personal best for turning maladjusted pir detector halogens on was 11.

I would be cycling along a deserted lane in the middle of the countryside and wham! Suddenly blinded by someones halogen lamp pointed directly at the road. Very dangerous. But what use is that as a deterent, middle of nowhere, no neighbours etc. It just makes life easier for scalies

Because it illuminates the target - 410 bore rules ok -Only joking 

 

What about drivers with super blue/white head lights - bad enough for other drivers must be quite nasty for Cyclists especially when they "forget" to switch to dipped.

[Brantuk]

Those blinding blue/white headlights are an absolute nightmare on the road both from the front and in mirrors from the rear.

 

I truly think they're dangerous and I have no idea how they get away with installing them on cars. No one seems to be watching road safety and the law when it comes to headlights.

 

I also don't know how breakdown trucks get away with shining bright spotlights from the rear into the face of traffic coming up the road from behind them. Same for roadworks spotlights, and warehouse security spotlights alongside a motorway.

[stash]

Apparently the light is not as intense, when measured by the Road Safety bods,as normal car head lights and the light beam is lower to the ground (their words not mine).

 

They are even worse in wet and as you say they are dangerous!

 

Think it was BMW who got round the old laws

 

All lights were used should be lower to the ground and have hood deflectors to minimise up streaming(?).

 

Trouble is without the lights Fast low RAF jets would get lost going to Donna Nook