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Thinking of selling up....is this normal in the early days?


Seamaster

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Hi Neil,


 


I've just logged on for a different reason, but read your post and thought I should reply! 


 


We were in the same position at the beginning of the year with my son, who became despondent with the telescope he had for Christmas, and was about to give up. Through this site we had lots of helpful advice, but the key difference was meeting Kim, who kindly helped Jamie set his scope up properly, and invited us to his house to look through his telescope, Jamie's really keen now, and has been out several nights in the last week. If you can get together with someone it really makes a difference. If you fancy a trek we're near Market Bosworth, which may be further than you want travel, but the good news is that it's dark here!!


 


Talking of Kim, that's the reason I was logging on!!  Jamie was hoping to get in touch and invite him over one night, but we had a computer blip a couple of months ago and lost all our e mail addresses and contacts. So Kim if you happen to see this, or if anyone is in touch with him, please say hello from us and ask him to get in touch if he'd like to.


 


Good luck Neil!


 


Elaine


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Hi Elaine,

Kim has kindly helped many people get the most out of their equipment. As far as I know he is temporarily taking a bit of a back seat with EMS due to his current work commitments. I'm sure he will see your post soon or someone will pass your message on to him. If you get yourself up to 10 posts I think you should then be able to send him a private message (PM). You have 7 posts already.

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Hi Elaine,


 


Just to echo what Pete has said, Kim is fine, just really, really busy with work and is working away a fair bit.  He comes on from time to time and some of the mods / admins have been in touch although it is sporadic and very infrequent.


 


Needless to say, he will be back and I`m sure he will respond when he is back, rested and raring to go, just don't worry if you don't hear hear off him for a while.


 


In the meantime, if there is anything anybody else can do, please feel free to ask and we will see if we can sort something out.


 


Happy to hear your son has his enthusiasm back.


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I think there's all times that we feel like giving up. Due to extra domestic responsibilities (sick wife) and colds, I've hardly been out at all recently. When I have, it has been mostly during the day to view the Sun. If you have a solar filter, well that's a great start! The Sun, Moon and brighter planets are not affected much by light pollution and can still be viewed and photographed through thin cloud. Viewing conditions are far from optimal where I live but I still manage to see quite a lot.


 


You may find my blog interesting: http://sungazer127mak.blogspot.fr/


 


I don't have any expensive stuff and would love an observatory or bigger solar 'scope but my bank manager will not give me a loan based on my promise of winning Euromillions.


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Hi Neil, just sticking my nose in here. I also am a beginner and find that when I look out the sky is fairly clear so I go inside to get my scope Etc. and when I go out again the pesky clouds have appeared. So what I did was to purchase a pair of binoculars (Nikon action 12x50) they are wonderful and when I mount them on my tripod it is amazing what can be seen,such as the Andromeda nebula, Pleiades and of course the Orion Nebula. So it is a pain but using my bins when the viewing window is small really makes me glad I can see some of the sights.

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Hi Neil


 


I have not read all these post but for what it is worth I only started a year ago and sometimes wondered if it was worth it. Couldn't find things in the sky or had to wait until the street lights went off late at night. I learnt to look for simple things to start with and even though I viewed through summer when the dark nights came I started again to check I still knew what was what. I used Stellarium to pick my targets before I go out when I know I can make it then only half an hour viewing is rewarding...especially as I have to check if I saw what I thought I saw and it is.....There was a few nights when I failed to see anything when I first looked for a DSO but even more rewarding when I found it.


 


Dennis


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Hi Neil


 


I'd be very happy to offer some help from new year onwards. I'm just tied up in London till Xmas. I often set up on the drive for a gander at the brighter object (street lights preclude much else) - but it can be fun if one or two turn up to join in - and I love helping beginners get going with their gear. Stay in touch and we'll arrange something - hope to meet you soon. :)


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Thanks Kim, I hadn't forgot your previous offer but "stuff" just gets in the way?

I think I do need some sort of "jump start" before I lose interest through frustration so yes please to your offer and if anyone else fancies a meet up with a frustrated newbie then please let me know?

I saw a very bright planet last night around midnight to the north east, just to the left of Orion but higher up?

Was that Jupiter?

I rushed around to set up my scope in the front spare bedroom (which was sort of facing that direction) and managed to get it (and the cluster under Orions belt) in my sights...but....I just can't get the scope to focus!

This is the second time I have had the scope out and each time I am left very disappointed with the lack of sharpness in my eyepiece.

I first used the standard 25mm eyepiece that came with the scope, switching to a Celestron X-cell LX 7mm to try and see detail on (what I thought was) Jupiter.

Now I acknowledge that I was looking from inside the house but was NOT looking through glass.

I have heard that the temperature differential from inside and outside can cause some issues but can it account for a total lack of focussing?

If not then I am beginning to worry that I have a problem with my scope, perhaps collimation although it is new and has never been dropped or roughly handled and I thought that it was unlikely on Mak,s?

Any advice or suggestions?

Thanks.

Edited by Seamaster
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I suspect there are a number of reasons your scope doesn't produce a good image. As you rightly say, viewing from indoors causes problems, with heat from the house escaping out the window and causing turbulent air currents which affect the view. Then there is the scope itself, your Mak will need at least an hour to get to a stable ambient temperature, as it's a closed unit.


Unless you were looking after midnight, Jupiter will still be too low, and even though it looks clear, there's a lot of atmosphere for the light to get through before it reaches your scope, you will get much better views when it gets higher.


As for the collimation, Maks hold their collimation well, and have remained good even after getting abused, so I suspect it is just where you are looking from and poor seeing conditions.


 


Stick an eyepiece in which will give you around 200x magnification and have a look at Polaris, move the focus in and out past the point where it is sharp and look at the diffuse shape of the star, you should have nice concentric rings. If they are misshapen or lopsided, then there could be a problem.


 


Have a read of this and see if it makes sense.


http://popastro.com/documents/PA_jan-mar2009_p12-13_telescopetopics_startesting.pdf


 


I reckon that you will have to brave the cold, get outside and let the scope cool down properly. But you will be rewarded, the Mak is a very good Planetary scope, and even with stock eyepieces it produces a good view. Try it next time it's clear and let us know how you got on.


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Thanks Baz, thing is there is no point where the focus is sharp, it refused to focus or sharpen no matter what I do, which way I twiddle the knob.

Just varying degrees of unfocused.

The planet was VERY bright and quiet large, it was about North East and high up and to the left of Orion.

It was around midnight.

If not Jupiter then what could it have been?

It was bright enough to perhaps be Venus but I though too high and too early?

Thanks.

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Hi Neil

Really interesting following all the posts, can't if I am honest offer any other pearls of wisdom as I am also a newbie, but stick with it because I too thought that I would never have any luck with seeing anything but in my limited experience I think it's all about small victories each night and a bit of planning and try to understand the equipment and its capabilites(someone posted an article about what to expect as a beginner, iam sure someone will know which one it is, it really is worth a read) I still cannot get my head around some of the constellations and where to look but then I think that's half the fun, my location is just off the Groby Road leading into Leicester so as you can probably imagine I get a lot of light pollution problems like everyone else, but I am stating to get a mental plan of where to site my telescope to avoid things like streetlights and neighbours lights to try and get the best views and a little bit of a dark sky(jammed in between a shed and a garage).

keep checking the forum for answers and tips, all the people are really nice and more than willing to help us newbies.

Stick with it Neil,

Regards

Rick

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Neil, I think you need a visit from whoever on the forum lives nearest to you, 2 heads are better than 1 and it could be either a simple problem or a complex one in which case someone on here has already experienced it (for sure!). Keep at it and adjust your focuser the smallest amount you can and slowly!!


 


Cheers


Ron


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Neil, I went out one morning last week for a look at a great red spot transit on Jupiter. Unfortunately my only view was over my house and the scope only had about half an hour to cool down. The view I got was terrible! It wasn't wobbling about, it just would not focus. I know there is not a problem with the scope. The moral of this story is that you must let the scope cool down and you need to get as far away as you can from "radiators" and "storage heaters" ie buildings for the best possible view. And, as Martyn said, the higher the target, the better.

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Lots of air currents then. I shouldn't say this because it's still very much a no no but you might have been better off with the window closed! At least the window glass will create a stable and more predictable blurr.

Have you tried your scope out in daylight? Try it on distant aerials, chimneys and birds.

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I did very briefly try it on a chimney when I first got it but it was only a couple of hundred meters away so perhaps I should try again on something a little more distant just to confirm it will focus ok.

The warm air meeting cold air and a warm scope would perhaps explain the poor image quality methinks.

On giving it more thought, the scope is left on it's tripod next to a window...and almost right over a radiator!

Therefore making for a very warm scope when I try to use it, that coupled with trying to view through an open window from a warm room, and scope out into the cold night equates to terrible quality imaging and focussing....doesn't it?

I'm beginning to feel slightly silly but I will reserve judgement on myself until I have tried it correctly, taking the scope outside on a (hopefully) clear night, allowing it to cool down, setting it up fully with the GoTo and viewing something easily viewable.

If the results are a good sharp focus then we know I'm an idiot, if not then.....well?

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If its clear this Friday I'll gladly meet you somewhere Neil. Maybe belper dark site conditions allowing. I'm not the most knowledgeable about maks but I'll help if I can.

Edited by tuckstar
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Hi Neil, Im afraid you wont get the best out of your mak viewing from indoors through an optically poor window which has a radiator under it. You will be lucky to get any decent focus. If viewing from a window is the only way you can observe, turn the radiator off, open the window and let the room and telescope match as much as possible the outside temperature. Also point the scope through the open window not through the glass. Even then you will get atmospheric disturbance from the walls etc but you stand a chance of seeing something at least.

Maks are superb performers but need to be treated correctly to get the best from them. Namely cool down. They are enclosed optics and have alot of mass in them compared to a similar newt or refractor so retain heat. If your scope has been stored in a warm room it will take alot of cooling when taking it outside. I put my mak180 out in the cold to acclimatise for an hour before doing anything with it and if Im imaging I will not try taking any images for at least 1.5hours.

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If its clear this Friday I'll gladly meet you somewhere Neil. Maybe belper dark site conditions allowing. I'm not the most knowledgeable about maks but I'll help if I can.

Thanks Andy, I appreciate that and would love to hook up but this Friday is my birthday and we are having a bit of a get together and my wife may take offence if I'm not there!

Phil, I think we can safely assume that the window/radiator/idiot scenario is to blame for lack of focus?

Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the advice and assistance in confirming my stupidity!

Hooking up is the way to go though as I really need to get a jump start and learn to use my gear properly.

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Oh, one thing...?

I wear reading glasses, I don't so far wear them for viewing but should I wear them for viewing (although awkward on the eyepiece) or will the scope and eyepiece do all the work and make my "readers" redundant?

Just wondered if the focus thing may be related to that?

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I wear glasses as I'm short sighted but take them off for viewing at the eye piece, I find they just get in the way. You simply adjust the focus to take into account your eyes.

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Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the advice and assistance in confirming my stupidity!

 

 

It isn't anything to do with being stupid, if you don't make mistakes, then you won't gain experience. We  all have facepalm moments. The thing is you learn from it, and end up getting where you want to be. 

 

I think once you get it all to work right, you will need to be dragged back indoors.

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Thanks Andy, I appreciate that and would love to hook up but this Friday is my birthday and we are having a bit of a get together and my wife may take offence if I'm not there!

no probs, not looking good on the weather front anyway. Just shout up if you want to meet up sometime. I'm not that far from Derby.

Happy birthday for Friday. Expecting astro kit?

Edited by tuckstar
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Oh, one thing...?

I wear reading glasses, I don't so far wear them for viewing but should I wear them for viewing (although awkward on the eyepiece) or will the scope and eyepiece do all the work and make my "readers" redundant?

Just wondered if the focus thing may be related to that?

Like Darren says, simply adjust the telescope focus to take into account your eyes.

 

I wear reading glasses myself and don't ever use them at the eyepiece, but the glasses won't be redundant. Like me, you will need the glasses (and a red torch) if you are using a star map at the scope. I am fairly new to wearing glasses, and at first found it a pain as I kept misplacing the glasses in the dark and wasting time searching for them just to inspect the star map  :facepalm2: . Get yourself a spectacle cord or lanyard to hang them round your neck so they can't get lost. They are only a couple of pounds from ebay.

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