Guest JayB Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Well I’ve managed to get out once and was blown away by Jupiter .......obviously now it’s time to upgrade my EP's from the standard super 10 & 25.... In all seriousness I knew before buying the scope that the EP's would need upgrading. I have read pages and pages of reviews and threads on various forums..... just when I thought "yes that’s what I want " the next thread added doubt again. It soon became obvious that Tele-Vue are up there as some of the best EP’s on the market, particularly the more expensive Ethos and Nagler, but these are way out of my reach at the minute and something that I may aspire to in a few years.... or when I win the lottery. Plossl seemed a cheaper option and whilst researching the characteristics of a Plossl I then understood why these EP’s were generally cheaper, then I came across an article all about the TV Plossl claiming that whilst the FOV was only 50 degrees with a varying eye relief, it had edge to edge sharpness and the quality of the image was almost as good as their more expensive counterparts....... maybe the Tele-Vue experience wasn’t just a pipe dream....... Now I know that EP’s can be a very personal and subjective, and I had every intention of waiting until the 27th to at least have the opportunity to look through other eyepieces, but I don’t know if I have the patience to wait that long...... so my questions are. what are your thoughts on the TV Plossls and do you think I would I see the benefit in my F6 200P. My thoughts are that I could buy 2 EP’s, say a 32mm and 11mm and pair these with a barlow, any thoughts? My final reasoning is that even if I didn’t get on with these or wanted to upgrade in the future, they hold their value really well, especially if I can buy second hand..... although looking online they seem about as common as rocking horse poo, which I figure is a good thing as people hang on to them. As I said I have read lots of reviews and forum threads, some going back to 2010, but I’m hoping your input could help me make my mind up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Eyepieces are such a personal item. What one person considers excellent another person doesn't like. I started off with Baader Hyperions which were very good in a slow scope not so good in a F4.5 scope. But for the price they are excellent. Then came William Optics Uwans and these were far superior to the Hyperions, especially the 16mm. At this point you should be happy but I wasn't. I tried the Televue Ethos range and to be honest I did not like them, they felt awkward and I could not fit the whole 100° FOV into my vision unless I really strained my eyes by looking around. So I eventually settled on a complete set of Televue Delos's. These are 72° and are pretty damn perfect for my eyes. I coupled them with a 82° 31 Nagler and now have the perfect set. It took me a long time to get but the views are excellent. What I'm trying to say is there is no rush, start of with something like theHyperion and work your way up. You learn what is best for you a long the way and by the time you can afford the Televues you should know that you want them. Brantuk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz Type-R Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I second that. I stuck with the stock 25mm and 10mm that shipped with my scope for just under a year before upgrading to the Badder Hyperion 8-24mm MKIII zoom, which was an instant upgrade in both quality and views. Yes I had a spot of the seagull affect close to the edge and I found in my 200P it was not par-focal like the blurb says it is but it was still a vast improvement over the stock eps. I then stuck with this for just over a year, trying out peoples BST's, Celestron X-Cel's and the like, which were better due to them being of a fixed focal length but meant changing ep a bit to suit conditions and what I was viewing. I then bit the bullet after looking through Kim's 13mm Tele Vue Ethos up at Belper one night and I got myself one of those - the views were stunning and unlike Mick, I could see the full 100 degree FOV so was perfect for me using a manual dob as it meant I did not have to nudge the scope so much to keep what I was viewing in the FOV. I now have a 8mm Ethos, a 13mm Ethos and am currently saving for a 21mm Ethos, I also have a 35mm Tele Vue Panoptic but will be selling this later on in the year. The point both myself and Mick are trying to make is, you need to try EP's before you buy, I did exactly that, so I knew what works, what doesn't, what I like, what I don't like ETC. Granted this is difficult in these balmy conditions but a Tele Vue is expensive, regardless of the model, and 2nd hand is still 2nd hand, if you buy an Ethos for example and sell it 2 weeks later, you will still loose money on it. HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bino-viewer Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Jay : i will be up at Belper on the 27th. You are welcome to try out my Televues. I have Panoptics in 24 & 19mm and Naglers in 13mm (all 1.25" size & in pairs for binoviewing) I also have a large 2" 31mm Nagler. And thats my complete set. Am i right in thinking your scope is F5.92 focal ratio ? F/6 , 1200mm fl, 203mm mirror ? The 32 Plossl will give you a 5.4mm exit pupil, just right for dark adapted eyes. I wouldn't go up to the 40mm though. And the 11mm will be a big improvement on the generic 10mm you have now. I'll echo what others have said though : try before you buy. And it's not only Tv you should consider, Vixen for eg do some nice stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brantuk Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Yup I agree with all the above - well I have to cos I've been quoted so much lol But seriously - learn what you like first by trying out loaners from other folks - we're very good at that here in EMS. And find out what's best for you in your scope(s) - there's no "one size fits all" so to speak. A good eyepiece set takes a long time to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JayB Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Ok guys thanks for your input...... I'm surprised no one recommended waiting and trying before I decide....... I get the point, I guess even after one session I wanted to try and improve on the whole experience, if I was amazed by what I could see with the standard EP's the thought of what the potential was seemed to great for me to hold back, but as you pointed out I probably don't know the full extent of what I expect that improvement to be, Clarity, colour, FOV Eye relief, etc. I would hate to spend a small fortune and then realise it doesn't actually work for me. Thanks for your offer Rob, I look forward to seeing what all the fuss is about..... I will take heed and not rush into any purchases....at least when it comes to EP's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithysteve Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 All the above advice is spot on Jay! There is no one eyepiece does all, same as scopes. It's down to personal choice as much as costs etc. My eclectic collection consists of second hand, 28mm and 16mm UWANS, 7mm Pentax XW, 20mm Nagler and 10mm Delos. the Explore scientific 40mm, Delos 12mm I bought new but discounted from an IAS exhibition. All my Meade super plossls (full range, not listed below) I bought new. But it's took a few years and I have not finished yet! ? i can recommend a book which helped me understand EPs better. Knowledge can help you make the right choice. Its a good read, a useful reference ( it has most lines of eyepieces in it) and is fascinating too! It's called 'Choosing and Using Astronomical eyepieces' by William Paolini ( it has other contributors in it too )... Its a useful guide... It's great if you get the chance to try before you buy, But at some point you just have to take the plunge and buy a decent EP. And go from there. You can wait months or even years to get your wish list Ep's second hand, you can get discounted ep's from trade fairs like IAS or Astro fest etc. Or when you get fed up with waiting just go for it and buy new ☺️ Please keep us informed on your choices, ? BAZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Strangely enough, I hardly use eyepieces at all these days. Most of my browsing is with binoculars and it is a DSLR that sits at the business end. I find the Moonfish Group eyepieces are great value for the money. I use them a lot with my Coronado PST, which does not have the focus travel to use with a DSLR. Now the real $64 000 question is whether a bigger telescope with budget eyepieces is better than a smaller telescope with fuel-injected, turbo-charged eyepieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JayB Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 21 hours ago, Smithysteve said: i can recommend a book which helped me understand EPs better. Knowledge can help you make the right choice. Its a good read, a useful reference ( it has most lines of eyepieces in it) and is fascinating too! It's called 'Choosing and Using Astronomical eyepieces' by William Paolini ( it has other contributors in it too )... Its a useful guide... Thanks for your input, I've Just checked out that book...its £40 for a paperback...... ........... this hobby is getting more expensive by the day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithysteve Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 ? LOL, Hi Jay, yes this hobby can be expensive.... ? But a book like this can save you money, and will more than pay for itself in the end. Decent EP's can be £100 - £400+ Depending on the route you take... Knowledge can help you make the right choices..and save money too. ? It took me a while to get it but I wish I had bought it years ago! Let me know if you get it and perhaps you could later tell me what you think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 On 10/02/2016 at 13:32, JayB said: Thanks for your input, I've Just checked out that book...its £40 for a paperback...... ........... this hobby is getting more expensive by the day... Unfortunately, most astronomy books are expensive because they do not have a mass market. Maybe I shouldn't say this but sometimes the best way to get information is online. I like a good read but it is too expensive for publishers to release new editions with the latest information. Perhaps the best idea is to read a book then search for later information on related topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedledee Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I disagree that books are expensive. I love books, and keep buying them at a rate faster than I can read them My wife is just the same, though she has a completely different taste in books to me. We have a room nearly full of bookshelves floor to ceiling, and are currently having to look at trying to fit more bookshelves in there! Astronomy and science type books are going to be more expensive than your average Sunday Times bestseller or your Fifty Shades of Grey genres. When you consider the amount of knowledge being passed on through some of the academic books and their subsequent reference value, or the hours of pleasure of that can be had from a good novel, I think they are generally cheap, especially in contrast to other pastimes. Some people like a good Friday night out pubbing or clubbing and are happy to pay £40 or even a hundred pounds for the privilege of a few hours boozing and a thick head the next day. If they've enjoyed that and had a great time then it is worth the money. I often find bargain books in shops or even Amazon, and have ended up paying just a fiver for a whole day of thoroughly engrossing reading. Some books costing £40 for a similar amount of time and enjoyment are still worth it if that is what you want to do, and I have a few in that price range as well. But then again I'd think very seriously about whether I really wanted to spend even £40 on a night out when for that price I can have sufficient whisky and real ales from Tesco to keep me happily reading my books for a couple of months . I do have to draw the line somewhere with books. Spotted this one on Amazon that I would really like, but at £266 with offers up to £616 they've got no chance! If anyone see's it going for £40, please let me know ... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Amateur-Astronomers-Field-Guide-Observing/dp/0912081066/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456059276&sr=1-1&keywords=1000%2B+The+Amateur+Astronomer's+Field+Guide+to+Deep+Sky+Observing%3A+The+Amateur+Astronomer's+Field+Guide+to+Deep+Sky+Observing Smithysteve and +Ibbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithysteve Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 2 hours ago, Tweedledee said: I do have to draw the line somewhere with books. Spotted this one on Amazon that I would really like, but at £266 with offers up to £616 they've got no chance! If anyone see's it going for £40, please let me know ... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Amateur-Astronomers-Field-Guide-Observing/dp/0912081066/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456059276&sr=1-1&keywords=1000%2B+The+Amateur+Astronomer's+Field+Guide+to+Deep+Sky+Observing%3A+The+Amateur+Astronomer's+Field+Guide+to+Deep+Sky+Observing Its not on kindle... Yet... ?. Must try the library... ... Its way out of my league too and possibly a bit out of date, last print run was in 1992. ? Cheers Pete! Tweedledee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedledee Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) Cheers Steve. Think I've found the book online for nothing, you might want to have a look. Got pointed in the right direction by Cloudy Nights... http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/395502-tomm-lorenzins-2000-web-site/ Here is the website with .pdf's of the information in the book... http://www.1000plus.com/2000plus/ It looks quite comprehensive, and I'm not sure that visual observing guides go out of date too quickly. It may be a good book, but I cannot figure why a new copy would fetch £600 or a secondhand copy £260 when it is on the web! Tom Lorenzin has a lot to say on his website, it is worth a study. Edited February 21, 2016 by Tweedledee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werisit Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 On 2/9/2016 at 22:24, Sunny Phil said: Now the real $64 000 question is whether a bigger telescope with budget eyepieces is better than a smaller telescope with fuel-injected, turbo-charged eyepieces. Well.... In my experience, a good quality ep will improve the view through a lesser scope and a better scope will improve the view through a lesser ep. Does that help. An example:- the view through my ST102 using the supplied 10mm ep and 2x Barlow was awful. Swapping that for a Vixen SLV 4mm gives a very acceptable image. A couple of nights back I was out for a look at the moon with the ST120. I saw that Jupiter was up so swung round on that, put the SLV4 in and could see the GRS coming into view. Equatorial and N + S temperate belts visible. Not bad for a cheapo achro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 19 hours ago, Tweedledee said: I disagree that books are expensive. I love books, and keep buying them at a rate faster than I can read them My wife is just the same, though she has a completely different taste in books to me. We have a room nearly full of bookshelves floor to ceiling, and are currently having to look at trying to fit more bookshelves in there! Astronomy and science type books are going to be more expensive than your average Sunday Times bestseller or your Fifty Shades of Grey genres. When you consider the amount of knowledge being passed on through some of the academic books and their subsequent reference value, or the hours of pleasure of that can be had from a good novel, I think they are generally cheap, especially in contrast to other pastimes. Some people like a good Friday night out pubbing or clubbing and are happy to pay £40 or even a hundred pounds for the privilege of a few hours boozing and a thick head the next day. If they've enjoyed that and had a great time then it is worth the money. I often find bargain books in shops or even Amazon, and have ended up paying just a fiver for a whole day of thoroughly engrossing reading. Some books costing £40 for a similar amount of time and enjoyment are still worth it if that is what you want to do, and I have a few in that price range as well. But then again I'd think very seriously about whether I really wanted to spend even £40 on a night out when for that price I can have sufficient whisky and real ales from Tesco to keep me happily reading my books for a couple of months . I do have to draw the line somewhere with books. Spotted this one on Amazon that I would really like, but at £266 with offers up to £616 they've got no chance! If anyone see's it going for £40, please let me know ... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Amateur-Astronomers-Field-Guide-Observing/dp/0912081066/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456059276&sr=1-1&keywords=1000%2B+The+Amateur+Astronomer's+Field+Guide+to+Deep+Sky+Observing%3A+The+Amateur+Astronomer's+Field+Guide+to+Deep+Sky+Observing I agree. When I wrote "expensive" I meant compared to popular fiction. I was just emphasising that astronomy books do not have a mass market. In some ways I find that surprising. Notice that on many TV programmes and films you can see a telescope in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedledee Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 While on the subject of expensive astronomy books, what the hell is going off with some of the prices at the moment. Just before Christmas I bought Annals of the Deep Sky Vol. 2 for £26.00. Now the only copies I can find are £613.00 new and £493.00 used!!!... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Annals-DEEP-Jeff-Kanipe-2015-01-01/dp/B017V8HXZ8/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456957177&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=annals+of+the+deep+sky+vol+1 Might put mine in the EMS For Sale section for a bargain £400.00 The book is excellent, and I would have been happy with it if I'd had to pay a bit more than £26.00, but it is certainly not worth anything like the above ridiculous prices! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ibbo Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Maybe they increase the price instead of pulling the ad when out of stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedledee Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Not sure Steve, but I see that they are still in stock direct from Willman Bell at the cheap price plus shipping from the USA. The expensive new and secondhand copies on Amazon are available from the same independent dealer, who is either having a laugh or trying to make a vast profit. I have seen other out of stock books on Amazon with no price or the original price showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithysteve Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 4 hours ago, Tweedledee said: Not sure Steve, but I see that they are still in stock direct from Willman Bell at the cheap price plus shipping from the USA. The expensive new and secondhand copies on Amazon are available from the same independent dealer, who is either having a laugh or trying to make a vast profit. I have seen other out of stock books on Amazon with no price or the original price showing. I have been aware of same problem on Amazon... Take a look at this book, it is listed on 2 pages, look at the prices... THe other day I saw it at over £2000.00 !!! But I did not go anywhere near it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bino-viewer Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Is it even legal to charge these over-inflated prices just on a whim ?? I wonder what Trading Standards would make of it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedledee Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I would have thought that it is quite legal, but a bit silly. The books just won't sell at such ridiculous prices. I think Trading Standards would have bigger fish to fry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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