Normal

[Guest]

How do we define what a "normal" person is?

 

I am thinking that a normal person would be within one standard deviation of the arithmetic mean in the majority of test criteria. For example, a normal person would have an IQ between about 85 and 115. They would have 2 or 3 kids, be between 5ft 10 and 5ft 6 (4 inches less for a lady), have seen 2 to 4 planets (excluding Earth), be aged between 30 and 40 and have 4 to 6 GCSE passes of at least Grade C or above (or equivalent). They should have had 8 to 12 sexual partners before the age of 30. They will have cheated on one spouse or live-in partner by the age of 50. They consume 2-4 units of alcohol per week and have tried an illegal drug at least once.

 

Get the idea?

 

Not giving away anything but I'm not looking very normal so far.

[Doc]

Well I'm not normal as I haven't tried any illegal drugs ?

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Doc said:

Well I'm not normal as I haven't tried any illegal drugs ?

Neither have I. I'm sometimes accused of not being normal but my response is to ask them how they define "normal". I think it is quite hard/ Nobody has exactly 2.4 (I think it is now 2.3) children, so any criterion by which we define "normal" has to have a range. Also, in my opinion, whatever criteria we set for defining normal, nobody will fit all of them, so we would have to say that they will fit a given percentage (say 60%) of a set of criteria.

 

Perhaps I should just accept that the concept of being normal is the subjective notion of one person's idea of being "somewhat like everybody else". This throws up a real can of worms because a person's concept of normal is dependent on their own demographic and their own perception of another person's demographic. Here. I start feeling uncomfortable because it opens up bias due to gender, age, nationality, etc.

 

I would far rather some clever sociologist came up with a definition, or we simply stop labelling people as normal or otherwise.

 

Perhaps another more concise response is to point out that you won't find the names of normal people in the history books or "Who's Who".

[tuckstar]

2.4 or 2.3 children, 60% of whatever, is for the "average" person. Normality is nothing but a baseline for the infinite improbability drive!!!

[Guest]

Perhaps it is a symptom of the weather that we are debating normality when on a "normal" Saturday most of us would be processing images from Friday night or snapping the Sun in hydrogen alpha light!

 

I am off working in a tick but, these days, a large minority of us work Saturdays. Is belonging to a large minority somehow "partly normal", whereas belonging to a small minority (such as astronomers) make us "abnormal".

 

Is it even "normal" to discuss such things?

[+Bino-viewer]

Phil : i'm definitely NOT normal.

 

Maybe my IQ is between 85 and 115. It may well be below 85. But it certainly is no higher than 115

I only have 1 child.

I'm actually 5'11" though starting to get shorter with age.

I'm afraid i'm 51

4 - 6 exam passes....? Not me. Only got the one. I'm not very academic.

8 - 12 sexual partners by the age of 30 ??  In my dreams ! ?

Cheated on my partner ? Not me....

2 - 4 units of alcohol a week ? Sometimes, yes. Very occasionally more. Quite often, none at all.

Drugs. Err no. Never been there. I've never even smoked a cigarette.

 

I guess i'm pretty boring. But then...

 

I often get up at 02:30 am and go to work. (on Saturdays and Sundays too)

I play Pokemon Go.

I sometimes stand in cold damp fields and look at faint things in the sky in the dead of night.

I spend way too much money on cameras and things, yet bizarrely have little idea how to properly use them.

 

Conclusion : i'm certainly far from normal and  possibly descending slowly in to madness. ?

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Bino-viewer

[Guest]

I'm definitely not normal. I'm neither typical and not especially average and that holds whatever criteria people use. I have lived in the same house, with the same partner for 29 years and never cheated on HER. I am noticeably taller and fatter than average. I only have one child. I understand things like quantum mechanics and the large-scale structure quite well, probably almost as well as anyone who does not research that field but my understanding of people and what goes on on this planet is certainly below average.

 

Perhaps, somewhat arrogantly, I do not see being "normal" as something to strive towards. The only advantage, as I see it, is that I would be more acceptable to most people instead of an object of suspicion or ridicule. Although I have not had any major impact on the world, I feel that it is people (like Stephen Hawking), who are not afraid to stand out and be different, who are the ones that enable the human race to progress. Without them, we would still be living in caves.

[Tweedledee]

Maybe this is partly to do with where we are on the autism spectrum. My wife got me to do an online test and found that I was a little way up there as she'd suspected for a long while. ?

 

It strikes me that many people spend much of their time swotting up on celebrity gossip and can't miss an episode of Love Island. I once saw a bit of Love Island and felt a bit disgusted that I'd just wasted 10 minutes of my life on it. ?

 

But then most of them couldn't reel off all the Messier objects including half a dozen useful parameters on each. I can probably do the same thing with a reasonable portion of the NGC! Since the age of about 6, I have had an almost photographic memory for maps, that's road maps and star maps, and keep my Sat nav and goto systems in my head. For some silly reason I remember number plates on cars belonging to family and friends, even from years ago like my dad's car numbers from back in the 1960's.

 

I also have a few difficulties that most don't have. When Tesco delivers the weekly shop, I have no idea how to pack everything efficiently into the fridge. To the wifes dismay I put stuff away quite randomly and still have half of it left that doesn't fit. She can get it all perfectly placed in a flash.

 

I'm perfectly normal! ?

[Smithysteve]

I always thought everyone on the EMS forum was perfectly normal! ? but what do I know! ☺️

No such thing as normal! It is too ambiguous a question.

Just look at how people live different lives all over the planet. A Yak herder living in Siberia or a Tibetan monk are ‘normal’ and just the same as us, or indeed veryone else really.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Smithysteve

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Smithysteve said:

I always thought everyone on the EMS forum was perfectly normal! ? but what do I know! ☺️

No such thing as normal! It is too ambiguous a question.

Just look at how people live different lives all over the planet. A Yak herder living in Siberia or a Tibetan monk are ‘normal’ and just the same as us, or indeed veryone else really.

Yes you are right! Our "normality" depends on our demographic and this is where prejudice can creep in. As an example a "normal" Indian is Hindu but there are loads of Moslems, Christians and other religions in India.

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Tweedledee said:

Maybe this is partly to do with where we are on the autism spectrum. My wife got me to do an online test and found that I was a little way up there as she'd suspected for a long while. ?

 

It strikes me that many people spend much of their time swotting up on celebrity gossip and can't miss an episode of Love Island. I once saw a bit of Love Island and felt a bit disgusted that I'd just wasted 10 minutes of my life on it. ?

 

But then most of them couldn't reel off all the Messier objects including half a dozen useful parameters on each. I can probably do the same thing with a reasonable portion of the NGC! Since the age of about 6, I have had an almost photographic memory for maps, that's road maps and star maps, and keep my Sat nav and goto systems in my head. For some silly reason I remember number plates on cars belonging to family and friends, even from years ago like my dad's car numbers from back in the 1960's.

 

I also have a few difficulties that most don't have. When Tesco delivers the weekly shop, I have no idea how to pack everything efficiently into the fridge. To the wifes dismay I put stuff away quite randomly and still have half of it left that doesn't fit. She can get it all perfectly placed in a flash.

 

I'm perfectly normal! ?

Those who know me are split on whether I'm on the autistic spectrum or not. My doctor thinks I am but told me not to do a test as I would have to disclose it to potential employers. I certainly don't understand people too well and can do a few faux pas. On the other hand, I was a successful instructor for several years. I can relate to your difficulties with putting away shopping. I can remember otherwise useless facts, too. 

 

As for Love Island, I can take it or leave it but usually spend any personal downtime catching up with science programmes and soaps. I can remember the names of many soap actors.

 

I am rather gifted at maths and was a former chess prodigy. On the other hand, I have difficulty catching balls and cannot skate.

[+Bino-viewer]

Pete : you've spent 10 mins more than me watching 'Love Island' !!

 

I am quite interested in looking at that online autism spectrum test.

I will try it out and report back.

 

[Tweedledee]

4 minutes ago, Bino-viewer said:

Pete : you've spent 10 mins more than me watching 'Love Island' !!

Maybe we should both make a point of watching a whole episode to try and expand our horizons. ?

 

7 minutes ago, Bino-viewer said:

I am quite interested in looking at that online autism spectrum test.

I will try it out and report back.

 

I will try and find it for you Rob. It was year or two back and if I remember correctly it may have been something on Facebook. My wife just passed me her tablet and told me to answer all the questions. ?

 

I'm sure a Google search would come up with something similar.

[+Bino-viewer]

I tried this one...but it may be a little outdated.

 

https://www.wired.com/2001/12/aqtest/

 

Anyway......the average score for the test was 16.4 (for the control test group)

For those persons who were later diagnosed with Autism (or a related disorder) they scored 32 or more.

 

I myself just scored 28.

 

Obviously this is not a definitive way of making any sort of proper diagnosis, but it seems i am leaning towards being mildly autistic or similar.

Interesting, but it does not worry me at all. I take this stuff with a pinch of salt.

 

 

 

[Tweedledee]

31 minutes ago, Bino-viewer said:

I tried this one...but it may be a little outdated.

 

https://www.wired.com/2001/12/aqtest/

 

Anyway......the average score for the test was 16.4 (for the control test group)

For those persons who were later diagnosed with Autism (or a related disorder) they scored 32 or more.

 

I myself just scored 28.

 

Obviously this is not a definitive way of making any sort of proper diagnosis, but it seems i am leaning towards being mildly autistic or similar.

Interesting, but it does not worry me at all. I take this stuff with a pinch of salt.

 

 

 

I think that was exactly the same as the test my wife got me to do a while back. The other one scored it for you online though, this one you have to score it yourself looking back at the answers.

 

Well I just did it and got 47 out of 50!!! ?

 

Quite proud of that result. ?

 

Now, if I could just achieve that sort of mark in other exams. ?

 

[Doc]

I scored 28 out of 50 as well.

[Tweedledee]

Anyone else with some high scores, or is it just me? ?

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Tweedledee said:

Anyone else with some high scores, or is it just me? ?

I'll check it out.

 

One of the traits of autism is deep interest in a subject, bordering on obsession. Seems like we've all got the "starter for ten" on that one!

[Smithysteve]

48 minutes ago, Sunny Phil said:

I'll check it out.

 

One of the traits of autism is deep interest in a subject, bordering on obsession. Seems like we've all got the "starter for ten" on that one!

It strikes me that the human race might have a better chance of progressing in the right direction if the percentage of slightly autistic people was high enough to become the norm! It would be a more interesting world that is for sure.

[Smithysteve]

13 hours ago, Tweedledee said:

Anyone else with some high scores, or is it just me? ?

Looks like you are in a league of your own Pete ! ??☺️

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Smithysteve said:

It strikes me that the human race might have a better chance of progressing in the right direction if the percentage of slightly autistic people was high enough to become the norm! It would be a more interesting world that is for sure.

 

Whilst characters like Rain Man do exist in real life, some autistic people do not have any special talents in other areas. Most have some things that they are better than average at. I think, though, that being autistic has a stigma to it in England, while many high tech comapnies in the USA hire autististc people for certain roles.

[Tweedledee]

Perhaps I should look into emigrating to the USA. ?

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Tweedledee said:

Perhaps I should look into emigrating to the USA. ?

Astro kit is cheaper there.

[Guest]

I got 35. Q16, most of us would qualify us as autistic. I HATE cloudy nights and cloudy days just as much, hence my screen name!

 

This puts me in the zone, which tallies with my own understanding. Strangely enough, I like meeting new people and am rather good at making them feel welcome. I also get on very well with kids. In situations where I need to interact with people in a formal role, such as salesman and instructor, I'm rather good but not so good when I'm in a purely social situation, where there is no clear role or purpose.

 

I am absolutely awful at reading peoples' intentions but learned how to do it in a classroom (again a formal environment). Like Rain Man, I repeat the same jokes and recite anecdotes that I have told people before. I am strangely good at communicating technical information to people, especiially in writing.

 

I definitely have narcisstic traits but am quite sympathetic. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Sunny Phil
more info

[Guest]

I'm not even sure that having "special needs" automatically labels us as "abnormal". I was one told by a teacher that 1 in 3 kids has some sort of special needs. As I've said before, I consider that being in a large minority does not mean someone is not normal. Belonging to a small minority is rather different but (again!!!) the definitions of large and small are subjective.

 

As for me, I'm often "accused" of being "not normal" but I'm increasingly aware that a true definition of normal does not exist and would also need to take account of our demographic. It really hisses me that people can label others as not being normal, when it is nothing less than a subjective assessment, based on a personal opinion.

 

So maybe as well as telling people that there is no universally accepted definition of "normal", we should also tell them that their's is a subjective personal opinion that has no basis in science or statistics.

 

Maybe also me bringing up this subject in the first place is a clear sign that the weather has been bad for astronomy!