Guest MissyRS Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Hi there people.... I haven't even got my eye to a scope yet... so this is a more of an aspiring newbie question!! I have looked at quite a bit of advice on scopes for beginners... I have learnt that there seem to be two ways of seeing what's in the sky - with computer controlled scopes and manually guided scopes - which I'd need to read a map for. My Q is - is there a better option? Is the latter a more 'purists' way of stargazing? And the former a more 'immediate' keep-them-keen way? I'll be honest I'm going to save my pennies for a scope so when I make the plunge (whenever that is) I don't imagine I'll be looking to upgrade in the near future - so I really want to make wise and long lasting decisions!! (I research the heck out of stuff before I make any decisions - seriously - even spoons!!! ). I'm not averse to learning to read the maps - but if that is the best way for me to go, an idea of a place to start would be coolio - as there are a good few options out there!! Is there even a 'best way' for starting out??? Thanks for your brain power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbz2 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) Well computerized scopes, like GOTO scopes are more expensive, and can literally take to you some of the best sights in the skies with very little effort... The most 'manual' of scopes are dobsonians, and are generally cheaper and you get more mirror for the money... There are also scopes on equatorial mounts but I feel they are more suited for astrophotography as they are a bit of a pain for visual observing imo. It really depends on which one you prefer... I chose to get a dob, as I wanted to learn the sky and find things for myself, as I thought I would get bored if I didn't have any real work to do, but that's what I thought others have different opinions etc. As far as learning the sky there are 3 main things that are recommended for beginners... Turn Left at Orion (a book for beginners), a sky atlas (usually the sky and telescope one), and Stellarium (PC program that is free and very very useful) http://www.stellarium.org/ http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sky-Telescopes-Pocket-Atlas/dp/1931559317 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Turn-Left-Orion-Hundreds-Telescope/dp/0521153972/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372866175&sr=1-1&keywords=turn+left+at+orion Edited July 3, 2013 by Tibbz2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz Type-R Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Most people will differ on what is best etc, they are bound to, it's there own opinion. But a good pair of binoculars and a decent star chart will get you learning the sky fast, at relatively little expense (£20 for a good star atlas - if that - and circa £150 for a pair of bino's) The next points are a little more difficult to answer, like, how much do you have to spend, do you want computerized GO-TO systems (it's not cheating honest) or do you want to do it all by hand, do you want to do just visual or astro photography or both? Now a days there is no real "purist" way of stargazing, it is mainly down to your level of interest, time and how deep your pockets are. So for starting out, I would say, get a star atlas, like this.... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sky-Telescopes-Pocket-Atlas/dp/1931559317/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1372866115&sr=8-11&keywords=star+atlas Download a free computer software program called Stellarium, can be found here...... http://www.stellarium.org/ They will get you learning what is what and where for very little money. Next, get yourself to a meet, try before you buy is the best advise I can offer you, unless somebody is imaging, then none of our group mind people having a look, trying is the best way to learn. There is a meet this Friday, you would be more then welcome to come along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbz2 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) Indeed, looking at others scopes is a good way to get a 'feel' of what kind of scope you would like... Binoculars are a great start and nice and cheap, and offer good views of plenty of things! Edited July 3, 2013 by Tibbz2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuckstar Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 It always used to be that goto setups were frowned upon. But nowadays they are excepted as the norm pretty much. You can get through a fair few objects in a night with a goto, but there's nothing like the satisfaction of hunting down objects manually. Either way learning the constellations is a must. As previously said binos are a good place to start. Come along to one of our meets, we don't all bite, and have a look what's available and what suits you, and your budget. Any way welcome aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 IMO if you want the wow factor then a dobsonian with a large mirror will give it to you, but the downside is you will need to know where to point it, hence learning to read a map. or For the same price you can get a much smaller mirror in a go-to scope. Yes it will point you to it, but because of the mirror size you might not see it. Most of the money in computer scopes are taken up by the electronics, the motors etc, and the mirror which to me is the most important part is second to the above, unless you have thousands of pounds of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 There are GOTO systems on alt-az mounts. The one on my Skywatcher Skymax 127 was pretty acurate once I learnt hoiw to use it. It is by no means a sign of failure to have one, but others have learnt their way around the sky first without one. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MissyRS Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Hi.. Thanks so much for your opinions! I'll be completely honest and say I have no idea how I want to be looking at things... I think I just want to observe - I do love taking pics - but really I just want to see for myself! I hadn't even thought about binoculars - but saying that - I think I'd rather save the £150 till I've decided on a scope!! I will be getting onto Sellarium in a min! and get me back to my favourite shopping place (Amazon!!) for a star atlas! I would love to get to a meet - maybe in the future! - but I'm not as mobile as I'd like and so will be a virtual visitor for now..... I'm off to mooch about some more!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MissyRS Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 James... I've no idea what an 'alt-az mount' is!?!?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbz2 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 James... I've no idea what an 'alt-az mount' is!?!?!?!? Similar to an Equatorial mount, but it only moves vertically and horizontally... This should help explain it http://www.astronomyasylum.com/telescopemountstutorial.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MissyRS Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Thanks for the link! Another new thing I've learnt today!!!! I am also going to have to check out abbreviations sooner rather than later!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAZ Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 If they have any left, Lidl had some Bresser 8 X 60 bins in for £29.00. They are not expensive, but will get you on the road, and they have a wide field of view as well. These are just about the biggest you can comfortably hand hold. Any bigger then a tripod is a must before your arms turn to jelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Ruth, You 'defo' need to see what kit other people have before clicking 'buy now' if 'alt-az' doesn't mean anything to you. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MissyRS Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Ruth, You 'defo' need to see what kit other people have before clicking 'buy now' if 'alt-az' doesn't mean anything to you. James Hahahaha! Yeah - I had that thought myself! I thanks for all the thoughts - I'm feeling very encouraged!!! I'm seriously hoping the skies are clear for a long and beautiful summer - I'm going to strap my 'water-wings' on and see what I can see!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 We may have members in Buxton, or if not there may be some on the Star Gazers Lounge forum who live in or near there. I do think you'd benefit from having a look at various bits of equipment, either in the day light and/or at night. It is so much easier to earn when you can see something first hand. Does Buxton have an astronomical club? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 The other thing (and I apologise because I've had a glass [or two {or three}] of wine), but you need to have realistic expectations of what you can ever see (with your eyes) in a telescope.... The moon looks good. Some planets looks good. Some globular star clusters look good. But for most other things, they look like this (a faint fuzzy thing, and this is with a large (>8") telescope): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbz2 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 The Orion Nebula is superb though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Tibbz, but it does depend how many inches you have. JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbz2 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I read that very wrongly for a second Tbh I must be easily impressed because I even enjoyed looking to it in my bins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MissyRS Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Yeah I think having a look at what others use would be great!!! I'm seeing that clarity of image is all about lens size... so that's goodly to know! Don't worry i've no illusions about looking through anything and seeing what the Hubble sees!!! I just want to see for myself I think! I'll check out if there is an astronomical club locally! And I teach at a high school and I know one of the science teachers has a Phd in astrophysics or some such thing - so I intend to track him down at some point too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbz2 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Clarity of the image is actually down to the quality of the optics/telescope/eyepiece. A refractor uses glass lenses and so creates a sharper image for the moon/planets, where as reflectors use mirrors to gather a lot of light for feint objects. A good quality EP increases the quality of the view too. Brighter images (better images of deep sky objects like nebulae/galaxies) are produced by a larger mirror in the scope (larger aperture) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brantuk Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Choosing a telescope can be a nightmare for a beginner - lot's of different types of scopes, and mounts, and a lot of terms and abbreviations to learn - before you even look at the night sky. There are many criteria including size, weight, portability, lens or mirror type and size, observatory based or not, intended use (observing or imaging), motorised, push to, or goto, budget available, the list is endless. I'll try and summarise the basics for you: Two basic mount types: Altitude and azimuth (alt/az), or equatorial (EQ). Alt/az mounts essentially move up/down and left/right. They are easy and intuitive for a beginner to master, and set up is very quick. To track an object requires movement in both axes, and they can be "push to", motorised, or goto. They can also be used for short exposure photography of solar system objects. Note: Dobsonian mounts are alt/az. EQ mounts require polar alignment and move in right ascension (RA) and declination (Dec). They are equally quick and easy to set up but alignment takes a spot longer. The big benefit is they move "naturally" and in tune with the sky. Tracking only requires adjustment in one axis (RA) once aligned with the pole star. Again they can be "push to", motorised (in one or both axes) or goto. EQ mounts are essential for imaging deep sky objects using long exposure photography. Three basic types of telescope: Reflectors (mirror based) - Known as Newtonian scopes these focus light gathered by a concave (or paraboidal) primary mirror to a 90 degree flat secondary mirror and out through the side of the tube to a magnifying lens. Consumer scopes can be small, or very large, covering all sizes in between typically 3" to 25" diameter. The larger the mirror the deeper you can see into space (typical use). They can be mounted on either alt/az or EQ platforms - Dobsonian mounts mostly carry the larger Newtonian scopes. Refractors (lens based) - These have an "objective" lens at the front of the tube which focuses light at the other end where the image is magnified by an eyepiece lens in a focuser tube. Look up achromatic scopes, and appochromatic doublet/triplet scopes. They produce very sharp images and have a variety of uses - planets, double stars, and wide field imaging, to name but a few. Compound scopes (mirrors and lenses) - These commonly include Maksutov and Schmitt cassegraines. Light enters the scope through either a corrector plate or meniscus lens, gets reflected from the primary mirror to a secondary convex mirror, and then back through a hole in the primary to focus at the back of the telescope. Gives the advantage of a very long focal length in a very short tube - but suffer from narrower fields of view (fov) depending on size. Generally you can view any object (except the sun) with any type of scope, but some are better than others for specific tasks. As a rule the larger the aperture the better. Mirror based scopes are a lot cheaper than lens based scopes per aperture inch (e.g. a 6" newtonian may cost a couple of hundred quid - a 6" refractor will be two or three thousand at least). You need special filters for viewing the sun, or a purpose built fully filtered solar scope. Check the mount's weight capacity before putting a scope on it - try not to go over 80% of that value for scope weight. Consider second hand - there are considerable savings to be made. I would advise you set a budget, and use the above criteria to see what's available within that price range to select an appropriate setup. Do get to look through some scopes before choosing - you're welcome at a session and you'll find EMS folks very accommodating. Hope that helps and good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MissyRS Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Wow!! I know I like to research muchos... but it really is a whole new language and very unfamiliar!! I think I'm going to print this and some of the other guidance on here, off for continued perusal!! I really do have A LOT to learn!!! But I am very excited to get me my granddad's binoculars out and have a proper look out there!!! I have a forecast of excellent skies for this weekend!!!!!! I hope you all have muchos muchos fun at the meet up! Enjoy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz Type-R Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Here is some more info Ruth from our very own guides and tutorials section..... A guide to observing the night sky...... http://www.eastmidlandsstargazers.org.uk/topic/291-a-guide-to-observing-the-night-sky/ acronyms and abbreviations....... http://www.eastmidlandsstargazers.org.uk/topic/194-acronyms-and-abbreviations/ beginers guide to the constellations http://www.eastmidlandsstargazers.org.uk/topic/4879-a-beginers-guide-to-the-constellations/ Happy reading........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbz2 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) ^^Think the links in the 1st post on that guide to observing need changing from .co.uk to .org.uk Edited July 4, 2013 by Tibbz2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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