dawson Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Does a leisure battery need to be on trickle charge ALL the time? Would it harm it to disocnnect it and leave it for a week in the garage, then trickle charge it for a day, then leave it for a week....? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CodnorPaul Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) My understanding is it is better to just leave it on - only gets abut 1.5v charge and goes through discharge and charge cycles to keep it in good order. I do tend to unplug mine if I go away for a week or something but then put it back on when I get back (get a bit funny about leaving electric things on when I go away). Putting it on for 1 day at a time may not do much? Martyn is the man to ask though. Also from a cost point of view my solar panels take care of that in the most part Edited August 25, 2013 by CodnorPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAZ Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 If the charger says you can leave it connected, then do so. I would agree that only charging it one day a week will have no discernible benefit, and it may slowly discharge any way. Don't forget as the weather becomes colder, it makes it harder to charge batteries, and for them to retain the charge. If they are kept where it doesn't get too cold that would not be an issue, but in a shed, then that is where they could struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 It's just nice to understand why it needs it. My simplistic view is that it won't lose much charge if it's kept at an ok temperature in the garage and nor being used, and therefore it won't be anywhere near as discharged as it might do if it were used to power a fridge in a camper van for a weekend.... Then 25 hours of trickle charge would get it back to it's maximum state of charge.... But i don't know what is inside which may benefit from charge constantly trickling through it; does using the battery also give the innards the same benefit? Jd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brantuk Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 The trickle chargers on powertanks and leisure batteries are only enough to top up when the charge is low. They can't recover a totally discharged battery - you need a "deep cycle" recharger for that - and even then it may be unrecoverable if it's been left for a long time. A full charge is recommended about once every three months if the battery is left for a long time without use - the trickle chargers can handle that. I left one 6 months on my first power tank - and it flattened beyond recovery. Leisure and marine batteries can last a bit longer without use but it ain't worth risking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 So if i used 20 amps of the 75 amp hours on a night, how long would it take the trickle charger to get it back up to full charge? Jd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brantuk Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Oh - I'm not to sure about the maths but I guess it depends on the charger and it's output plus the age of the battery. But after a 6hr session on an autumn night I put my powertank on charge for about twelve hours and it's hunky dory for the next evening session. I once left the caravan uncharged for 6 months - but after a weekend of charging it was fine again - never had to replace it in 4yrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAZ Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Leisure batteries are more capable of being discharged and recovering well, if you flatten a sealed lead acid battery, it will get the hump, and may never hold a full charge again. Most trickle chargers have a variable output as well, so they will whack in full charge capacity to start with, and as the battery recovers it will vary the ampage and voltage to suit. Depending on the one you have, it may cycle the battery by discharging it periodically and re-charging it, this helps prevent oxide build up, and extends the batteries life span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 Found a thread on SGL that suggests the time to recharge is: 1.4 x amp hours ....... so for me 75 x 1.4 = 105 105 / chargers amp output..... so for me 105 / 1.5 = 70 hours to charge from FULLY flat, but it wouldn't work from fully flat, so even if it was half flat it would take 70 / 2 = 35 hours as a rough guide. From what Martyn has said, charging and discharging itself prevents oxide build up and prolongs the life of the battery, so trickle charge is less about needing to keep it charged, but more about keeping it active which lengths its life. I only asked as the trickle charger was quite warm even when the LEDs indicated the battery was charged, and I was worried about leaving something that warm on ALL the time. I might periodically turn it off for a few hours to let it all cool down. That warmth must be consuming a fair amount of energy though. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 Here is a thread I started on SGL on the topic, to see what the wider audience think: http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/193371-trickle-or-no-trickle/ James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAZ Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 The warmth is from it dissipating the energy as heat, this is normal. It will put some in the battery, and the rest is lost, as it requires. All Chargers will get warm, it's the nature of the beast, and it is a very minimal amount of energy it gets rid of. This is why they suggest charging in a suitable place, as the battery could gas as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CodnorPaul Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Mine has been really warm before so I checked it again a few hours later and it had cooled down again - I suppose it will go in cycle with the charge and maintenance cycles so is nothing to worry about. As Martyn said as long as it is well ventilated then it should be fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 Just had a feel, and it's still quite warm in maintaining mode. I'll go back in a bit and see how it feels. It might be that the coil retains heat for ages and I'm just overly worrying. JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 After some more research, I've opted to: Re charge the battery after I've used it Connect it to the trickle charger for a few hours (or until it's fully re charged) once every few weeks if not using it. It seems lead acid batteries don't like to be stored without charge as you've all said. A link Leigh sent me on the phone suggests even if the battery were to self discharge to 70% capacity (ie lose 30% capacity) that would limit the life of the battery to 1000 charge cycles. I don't think it will lose 30% of its capacity over a week or two, but even if it were to, I'm unlikely to still be alive in 1000 charging cycles, so I'm happy with that option. Thanks again for the help. I've ordered one of those fancy boxes that Felix has. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz Type-R Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Mine is on trickle charge / discharge constantly ( unless it is in use), it has currently been on charge for months on end, nothing gets hot, it lives in the garage which ranges from really hot, to really cold, it just gets left on, never had any issues and I know my battery is in tip top condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 My trickle charger is about 50'C when it suggests it is just in maintain mode (one red and one green light), but something is also happening as i can hear bowel like noises from inside the battery. I've put the charger on a brick rather than the wooden desk it would otherwise be sat on. Still not sure about it all. Jd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CodnorPaul Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 The noise is something I would worry about more than the heat - mine is silent when charging or maintaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz Type-R Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 I would get rid of that and get another one, that don't sound right, never heard a peep out of mine (not that I sit listening to battery's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 It's not loud, but i have a trained ear.... As i'm not sat in the garage all the time, i don't know how often the charger is doing something to the battery; i still think it's doing something even when it says the battery is fully charged as the charger is hot and the battery gurgles (very quietly). Jd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+RonC Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 James, is the cell-light green, if so it's fully charged already! It was when you picked it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 Yes it's green; as you say it was when i picked it up. I'm just experimenting with the trickle charger, and leaving it connected as the manual and most people recommend... I thought it might max up the charge then turn off, but i'm still a bit bemused why the charger is warm and the battery is making a gentle and very subtle bubbling sound (it needs a stethoscope to hear it). I'm going to leave it connected over night then disconnect the lot and leave it for a week or so and repeat. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+RonC Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Ok, your hearing must be pretty acute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 No, i put a stethoscope to it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz Type-R Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Yes it's green; as you say it was when i picked it up. I'm just experimenting with the trickle charger, and leaving it connected as the manual and most people recommend... I thought it might max up the charge then turn off, but i'm still a bit bemused why the charger is warm and the battery is making a gentle and very subtle bubbling sound (it needs a stethoscope to hear it).I'm going to leave it connected over night then disconnect the lot and leave it for a week or so and repeat. James So the instructions tell you to leave it attached, most people on here tell you to leave it attached, I'm just wondering, if a sign on a train said "do not stick head out of window" and other people on said train, said don't do it, would you, as an experiment? I must admit James, I'm bemused by your reasoning. Didn't someone else on here (Martyn) said it might get warm due to the charger charging then discharging the battery, I'm also bemused why one would want to put a stethoscope to a battery, do you do that to all your household appliances as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 A stethoscope is a useful house hold gadget. I have used it an various occasions. I just wanted to know why a leisure battery had to be left on trickle charge all the time, when car batteries (which only really differ by the thickness of the lead plates apparently) are not on trickle charge when the engine is off (which is most of the time). The question stemmed from my concern the charger was using electricity (potentially unnecessarily), and that it getting warm would be a fire risk (how ever small that risk may be). The manual was for the trickle charger, so it is biased in it's guidance; i don't have a manual for the battery. My subsequent research today has suggested it doesn't need to be on trickle charge all the time, just that it should never be stored in a discharged state.. My conclusions are that i'll stored it charged, and then tickle it with trickle every couple of weeks. This solution may reduce the life of the battery a little, but i suspect not much more than leaving it on trickle all the time; this solution will also reduce my electricity bill and reduce both the risk of fire and my anxiety about leaving it on 24/7. So there is value in challenging perceived wisdom; as it is just that, perceived Now where's my stethoscope.... Jd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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