Daz Type-R Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Fair points, but how I see it is as follows.... Can you Imagine coming home from work every night and plugging your car in to keep the battery trickling over, that is a point of practicality. Something that leisure battery's are more practical to charge than car battery's. The cost to charge/discharge a battery has to be pence per year, it probably costs more to Hoover up the house than it does to charge the battery for a year. Piece of mind for the fire risk, can't argue with that, if it makes you sleep better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 Oh for a good nights sleep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheila Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Is this a new battery you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted August 26, 2013 Author Share Posted August 26, 2013 No, second hand, off Ron. Daz, I used the home energy monitor thing this morning (when everything else was off) to run so tests on how much energy it was using on trickle charge.... On it's background trickle rate it costs me 0.05p per hour (less than £5 a year), but it flips to a charging rate every so often (maybe for 10% of the time, or 5%, I'm not sure) and that costs 0.2p per hour! How am I going to afford this.... You are right, it's pretty cheap. JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheila Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Only time I have come across audible fizzing on battery is when It has a duff or dead cell. It charges fully but the drops I little gas get than normal down to a lever then charge drops more slowly Sheila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAZ Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Batteries will "bubble", it's a normal noise, it's where you are altering the chemistry within the battery, allowing this change to retain the charge. As long as this is not audible without the aid of a stethoscope, it's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawson Posted August 26, 2013 Author Share Posted August 26, 2013 It needs a stethoscope thankfully Jd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheila Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Well then that is ok. The one I had you could hear bubbling Without a hearing aid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ecopley Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Does any one here use lithium batteries? When I bought my scope I also bought a lithium polymer battery. It's only 10Ah but I've never managed to discharge it more than 20% over a night. It has (horribly obnoxiously bright) LEDs to show the charge state. I use my mount with lots of moving and I have a heated dewshield. My laptop lasts five hours on a charge of it's own battery (it's ancient). At the moment the scope battery is over 70% after two five hour sessions. No buzzing or borborygmy (even with a stethoscope...), no trickle chargers, no messing. Clearly one has to follow the recommendations for lithium batteries but it seems like 70Ah might be a pretty impressive amount of power for what is essentially microelectronics. I suspect that JD could cope with a lot less than that. I'm planning to make voltage regulators for my camera and laptop to see how long the scope battery will power the whole shebang. If I find out anything interesting I will let you know but for the moment I would recommend this as a good way to go - having not tried any alternatives, mind. Just wait till I get to Wymeswold. You guys will all be smiling when my battery dies. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toymaster Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I have a car in the garage that I rarely use and I had the battery on trickle charge < 300Ma all the time and it failed. The new battery is now on an intelligent battery charger that is said to condition the battery - Think it cycles and varies the voltage when showing full or something. So far so good. Might be worth a try on the SLA leisure batteries? Ade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stash Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 My caravan "leisure" battery is plugged in permanently to keep it charged/recycled - never had a problem (4yrs) - famous last words ! Note - The bubbles from battery charging contain hydrogen which is explosive (when mixed with oxygen) so don't it in a closed room over a long period and then "have a fag" you might be the next celestial object - valve regulated lead acid battery (VRLA) minimises this So as Ade says using a "an intelligent battery charger" would make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fondofchips Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I have a 180AH truck battery as my obsy power supply, I bought this charger to keep it topped up: - http://www.thegreenreaper.co.uk/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Chargers/AccuMate_Pro_12_24_Battery_Charger_Maintainer.html You just need to buy the correct charger for the battery size. I've fitted a digital voltage readout & it is always between 13.5 & 14.5 volts, it kicks in when you use power from the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toymaster Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Tried my Hilka intelligent charger on a leisure battery that is used for the scope and it came up with a fault light and will not charge. Did some further investigation and it looks like one of the cells is not holding a charge for long and volts drop to 11 ish after 5 mins. Anyone got a trick for recovering a duff cell? Still works on the scope at lower volts. Other than buy a new one that is :-) Ade - Skinflint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stash Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 If JD wants to play Doctors and Nurses with a stethoscope that's fine by me - use to play it all the time great fun What was it "I show you mine if you will show me yours" - I was only five at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyaardvark Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 All very interesting - especially since I am in the process of buying a battery or at least choosing one [still] Enquired at Tanya to ask about the suitability of that cheaper leisure battery I am looking at and they have [of course] recommended some slightly alternative technology [at higher cost]. Looks like gassing is normal but not really desirable... obviously we don't want to blow anything up But I guess that with suitable ventilation and avoiding build up in the box there shouldn't really be issues?! Out of interest do you know if your batteries are sealed or not? Are most of them wet/lead acid batteries? What is your total current draw with mount and dew heaters etc. Those that monitor your voltage, how often does it drop below say 12.1V? After how many hours? Apparently this is when you start to get "sulphation" which degrades your battery life. How long do you use your setups for before recharging? Anyone on a second or third battery after they have died? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brantuk Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I use battery packs - one Celestron 20ah and one Maplins 17ah. Never had a problem with either and still going strong after 4yrs. They get a full 16hr recharge every 12wks when not in use. After a session they get an 8hr top up - and a full charge after a star party. My caravan (with leisure battery) goes into storage 4-5mths of the year over winter and gets a full recharge over a weekend before summer use. Never had a problem with the battery. I don't know about lipo's but sealed lead acid ones seem pretty reliable. I've gone from 6pm to 11am using them to drive a mount only through the night and it slewed, tracked, and never lost a target all through. I always put dew heaters on ehu. That's my experience - so long as they are topped up when needed and full charged 4 times a year they never give me a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parklife2uk Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I'm currently 'experimenting' with solar charging my leisure battery. Don't laugh! We try to camp every few months through the summer and having a cold supply of beer (plus milk and cold food for the family) is very important. This, my 'Battery Toolbox' will have a dual purpose - to power a mount, dew heaters etc (when I buy them!) and also supplying 12v power on camping trips. I use a CTEK MSX 5 for standard mains charging, but at the moment I'm using the power of the sun to charge and supply power to the battery. As the cool box draws 5-6A (I think) the battery will only last 8hrs (I wish I could remember the formula to calculate it!), but with the solar cell I've been managing to run the coolbox through the day 7am - 5pm ish. And it's been cloudy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheila Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 what amp hour is you leisure battery. if its 60 amp hour at 6 amps full discharge is 10 hours. would not recommend that though, max 60 % really, so bout 6 hours. if its 110 ah like mine would do 8 hours ish. dont like fully discharging even if it is deep discharge battery Sheila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazz Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 We try to camp every few months through the summer and having a cold supply of beer (plus milk and cold food for the family) is very important. This, my 'Battery Toolbox' will have a dual purpose - to power a mount, dew heaters etc (when I buy them!) and also supplying 12v power on camping trips. As the cool box draws 5-6A (I think) the battery will only last 8hrs (I wish I could remember the formula to calculate it!), but with the solar cell I've been managing to run the coolbox through the day 7am - 5pm ish. And it's been cloudy.... We also camp a lot, and we now use a split charge relay when out and about, we've found an idiot proof easy to fit one, that you just connect to both batteries and it does the rest. It's of course dearer to buy than a kit one, but it's easy to fit, swing and roundabouts I guess. I've never looked into solar, but I have seen many canal boats as well as campers using it, so it must be getting better! We do find a gas fridge is excellent - and a lot colder, but they can be bulky and you need to carry a gas bottle :-/ The simple calculation I use to work out amps is, watts divided by volts. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stash Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I think these articles sums up the do's etc nicely (imho) http://www.batteriesnorthwest.com/batteryschool.cfm?TID=2 http://www.sterling-power.com/support-faq-2.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werisit Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Hi James. It sounds as if you might be wise to invest in a more sophisticated "battery conditioner" type charger. These monitor the state of the battery and give it what it needs. They are designed to be left connected. The term "trickle charge" implies that you charger simply charges at a low and constant rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyaardvark Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Thanks all for your replies re: my revival of this post. I use battery packs - one Celestron 20ah and one Maplins 17ah. Never had a problem with either and still going strong after 4yrs. They get a full 16hr recharge every 12wks when not in use. After a session they get an 8hr top up - and a full charge after a star party. My caravan (with leisure battery) goes into storage 4-5mths of the year over winter and gets a full recharge over a weekend before summer use. Never had a problem with the battery. I don't know about lipo's but sealed lead acid ones seem pretty reliable. I've gone from 6pm to 11am using them to drive a mount only through the night and it slewed, tracked, and never lost a target all through. I always put dew heaters on ehu. That's my experience - so long as they are topped up when needed and full charged 4 times a year they never give me a problem. Good to know your experiences with lower capacity for running the mount Kim, thanks. I have looked at some AGM type batteries that apparently cope with deeper discharge better. The other tempting thing about these may be their size and weight. But I still recon I would need at least 40Ah to be safe really and potentially more. So not much difference in size from leisure batteries in the end. Current advice from Tanya is see how I get on with the original cheaper one I enquired about. Have to confess I had to look up Lipo and EHU! I'm currently 'experimenting' with solar charging my leisure battery. Don't laugh! We try to camp every few months through the summer and having a cold supply of beer (plus milk and cold food for the family) is very important. This, my 'Battery Toolbox' will have a dual purpose - to power a mount, dew heaters etc (when I buy them!) and also supplying 12v power on camping trips. I use a CTEK MSX 5 for standard mains charging, but at the moment I'm using the power of the sun to charge and supply power to the battery. As the cool box draws 5-6A (I think) the battery will only last 8hrs (I wish I could remember the formula to calculate it!), but with the solar cell I've been managing to run the coolbox through the day 7am - 5pm ish. And it's been cloudy.... Still don't know what my total current draw will be. Looks like the mount (similar for HEQ5 and NEQ6) is around the 1A mark mostly but higher for slewing (1.6 ish) what I don't know is what will happen when I start adding a dew heater or two so any additional thoughts on this welcome. I have estimated (based on Kendrik data) at about 3A. so probably 4-5A total at the top end? what amp hour is you leisure battery. if its 60 amp hour at 6 amps full discharge is 10 hours. would not recommend that though, max 60 % really, so bout 6 hours. if its 110 ah like mine would do 8 hours ish. dont like fully discharging even if it is deep discharge battery Sheila Thanks Sheila, I am currently looking at and 88Ah leisure battery (but possible not sealed - however I think they all gas to some extent) I have becoming more aware of this idea that you should not discharge them fully especially the leisure type. When you say 60% I assume you are saying reducing the charge down to 40% of it's full capacity? I have been reading about 50% to be on the safe side which is comparable but one factor I have been told relates to issues if the voltage drops below 12.1V. Do you monitor your voltage (I think I saw you and/or Stephen doing this) and how long till or how often does it drop to these levels? Or does it usually read about this level and only drop when the charge is getting low? Also, is there a way of knowing how much charge you have remaining? (See below...) Hi James. It sounds as if you might be wise to invest in a more sophisticated "battery conditioner" type charger. These monitor the state of the battery and give it what it needs. They are designed to be left connected. The term "trickle charge" implies that you charger simply charges at a low and constant rate. I assume James has resolved these issues:) Sorry I revived an old post so a bit confusing here... I think these articles sums up the do's etc nicely (imho) http://www.batteriesnorthwest.com/batteryschool.cfm?TID=2 http://www.sterling-power.com/support-faq-2.htm Thanks Clive... useful links and 1st answers one of my questions above and some great reminders about maintenance and more. "A fully charged battery will give you the best and longest service. Be sure the batteries are fully charged before testing or using your R..Vs. A fully charged battery, without a drain or load, after the surface charge has dissipated, is 12.63 volts for a 12 volt battery. Other states of charge are: 12.60 volts = 93% charged 12.55 volts = 89% charged 12.50 volts = 85% charged 12.45 volts = 80 % charged 12.18 volts = 50 % charged." 2nd Link - love it great read and sorts a lot of things out for me. I'll probably refer to these in my other post. Thanks to all and regards, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanthic Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Lead acid batteries should not be fully discharged if possible and if they are, then they should be charged up as soon as possible to avoid sulfation of the plates. Big crystals form on them and they are hard for the charging process to break down. Leisure batteries are more tolerant of deep discharge and less likely to be damaged by it. A voltmeter will tell you how much charge is in the battery. A fully charged unit will be at 13.3(ish) volts and will drop down to 11 when depleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CodnorPaul Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Streetwize-SWTBC-Trickle-Battery-Batteries/dp/B0012U5BO2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1403260988&sr=8-2&keywords=ring+trickle+battery+charger this is the charger I use as advised by Martyn - it doesn't deliver a constant charge but monitors the battery level when full and goes through maintenance cycles. I just connect it after every use and leave it on, then it is fully charged every time I want to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanthic Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Streetwize-SWTBC-Trickle-Battery-Batteries/dp/B0012U5BO2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1403260988&sr=8-2&keywords=ring+trickle+battery+charger this is the charger I use as advised by Martyn - it doesn't deliver a constant charge but monitors the battery level when full and goes through maintenance cycles. I just connect it after every use and leave it on, then it is fully charged every time I want to use it. +1 Same charger that I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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